not registered

Wow. I'm really crushed and dismayed at some of what I see on this site.

I see a lot of things.

I see some buyer’s remorse from some folks.

I see some misinformation about business in general.

I see a lot of Blame Game and fault finding and personal attacks on people.

I worked for Pacesetter for 10 years in the 90's and I think I have a pretty good perspective on the company.

I was a top ten installer nationally and won three Pacesetter convention trips for my hard work as one of their top installers nationally.

Pacesetter Windows have always been expensive. When you go to the Cadillac dealer and buy an Escalade... if you're smart you know that it's about 10 grand more than a Tahoe that looks exactly the same and is built in the same plant with all the same parts. But you buy the Cadillac because you want that name on your truck. Are windows that much different?

Pacesetter was comparable in pricing with Sears and AMRE. They we're about a grand a window. That is definitely expensive, but they built the very best window made at that time. They were among the first to do Argon Gas in their windows and they were the only way for a high quality product to make it to a rural area 60 miles from the real cities and towns.

Phil and Harley Schrager built a team of performers. People who were just average folks before they found Pacesetter, but became high income, highly motivated professionals while following the Pacesetter system.

I really wish there was a timeline difference on this site to show where Pacesetter was under the Schragers as opposed to the people who bought the company out. I can only speak to the company as it was run by Phil and Harley.

The 10 steps to a sale were brilliant and are used nationally by a lot of companies because they are true, helpful and created win-win negotiations. I'll share them here if you folks would like me to. There is no crooked scam or underhandedness in their sales and marketing system.

Let’s talk about the money. A grand a window. It was about $400 for them to build a window. It cost them about $100 to have it hung; it cost about $100 at that time to generate a good lead (from telemarketing, Sam’s or whatever. That number is now $250 or so per lead generated according to Remodeling Magazine.) The salesman made 10 to 15% commission. He deserves to make a living and for him that money was part of the deal too. There goes $150. Now were at $750 per window, not counting shipping, administration, warranty issues, bad debts, non paying customers etc. The profit margin was about 25% if everything went well. In construction, sometimes things don't go well and you loose that money. Most companies need to operate on about 18% minimum. Did anyone get gouged? Not really. Pacesetter was for decades the only way for a poor person in the middle of Kansas, or Louisiana, or Texas to get a great product for XXX dollars per month. They met a great need for a lot of poor and middle class people in rural areas.

I'd like to remind you all that the glass of wine with your dinner is $4.00 and the wine itself only costs $1.00. Whiskey is the same. Is Chili's full of slimy money grubbers trying to take advantage of people? I don't think so ....do you?

I knew a lot of the people mentioned on this site. Most we're immensely admirable, diligent and hard working. The old school Pacesetter crowd was inspiring. We learned to be winners or we got fired.

At 28 I pulled off a $95,000 income working 60 hours a week. I was happy to do it. It was a joy to help people with needs that just couldn't be met by other companies.

Here again back to quality. Even today the very best Thermally Broken Aluminum Window is just a knock off of the Pacesetter 5000 series. They built the very best product on the market and took it to out of the way towns for real people. Perhaps their calling was there in the country and perhaps not to the Southern California high income folks.

Are there some disgruntled ex employees weighing in? Yes apparently so....But let me ask this....

My experience is that only 2 in 10 people "get it" as far as work ethic. Is it a shock that some sub didn't get paid. Not really. I've found less than 1 in 10 people can do any job properly. Go look at Wal-Mart. Look at any job applicant in any market.

Most people feel entitled to more money no matter what they do or the quality of their work. Pacesetter awarded success and fired failure. No one in business should do differently on that front at least.

Phil and Harley made their money and sold the company because they were older gentlemen. In the late 90's I'm thinking they were about 57 and 59 or so. Who blames them for selling their life's work? I'm sure they were tired of working and wanted to retire. Do you want something different?

I saw a post on the FDS bank. Phil and Harley financed millions of dollars in home improvements for thousands of people. Interest rates were high at the time and they took their money and reinvested it into peoples homes......yes for the real estate lien, the interest and the principle, but also for the folks themselves. Was that mean?

I mostly feel for those who were unsatisfied with the work done on their homes. Many have legitimate complaints. Many have legal recourse. That is what the courts are for. Pacesetter went bankrupt. Closed down. There is no recourse for those folks unless the finance company they pay to is willing to make an allowance or credit. That is between those folks and their lender.

It's very sad to me that this site seems to be a hit job on several people who may or may not be responsible for some specific problem. Gary Kluck. Didn't know the man although I heard of him. Does this man really deserve to be held personally responsible for everything that went wrong on every job that held the Pacesetter Banner? Does anyone think about the 600 million in work we’re talking about over a 5 year period of time? I think not. I see one person with a $12,000 case of buyers remorse ruining other peoples lives because he feels like he got taken.

Good Sir, buy a Tahoe, know when to demand a refund or when to get a lawyer and don’t ruin some man who was trying to do his job because you got the run around from a multi-million dollar organization.

Pacesetter at its peak was doing 120 million a year in gross sales. Some projects might go bad in there. Some folks may have legitimate beefs with a company and need to take action to be compensated or reimbursed. That is not really Gary Kluck’s fault as far as I can see.

I worry that you folks are ruining a mans life to have a scapegoat for your complaint du jour.

I'd enjoy a dialogue with anyone to help them problem solve an issue with their windows or doors. Even take a few questions from those who wonder what it was really like to work at Pacesetter or in the home improvement business. I’ve been in the business for 25 years now and I think I bring a good, needed, valuable insight to this site.

I suppose that's all for now. I'll check back and try to address things individually for those in need of answers.

I hope you'll all learn several things from this site though.

1. Buyer Beware. Know what you're getting, time frame, contract requirements, rescission rights, warranty time frame, and how to look over a project for punch list items before you pay for the job or sign a completion certificate. Your money or your signature are the items that close out a project. Once you’ve done it (signed a completion certificate or written the last payment check) your options for recourse are slim.

2. Shop around. Get a few quotes. Compare and contrast options and pricing to get the best deal from someone you trust. At this point I’d like to remind you that most of you who are unhappy didn’t check references, or the BBB. I’d also like you to know they had plenty of references from happy folks and a great record on the BBB, Chamber of Commerce etc. for most of their operating period.

3. Understand that warranties expire if the company goes under. This is basic and important. Bankruptcy is when you tell the world that you don't have enough money to do the job anymore. It's designed for people to have a way to try hard but not loose everything in their world if there's a problem too large to overcome in a business venture. It's what happens to most companies eventually when their time and place in the market is over. It's a legal concept created to duplicate a Biblical Truth. It's called forgiveness and it's inspired by God's grace.

Question or comment?

Connected2u2@yahoo.com

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not registered

Mel,

I'm not a big Pacesetters fan, never worked for them, never heard of them when they were in business. But I have been in the window industry for many years, and judging from your post, you really don't know much about the industry, or you wouldn't be ranting like you are.

You want to call things obscene? Look at your government. 56k for a diesel pickup truck?
50k for an SUV? 65k for a new kitchen? $300 electric bill? You have no idea why costs are what they are, what it takes to bring a product to the marketplace.

My guess is your a small time contractor, the kind that installed inexpensive windows for my sister in NJ just 5 yrs ago. Those windows are total crap, have all broken seals, the balances are broken, she has no warranty. That's what you get cheap, Mel. You get shit, you get a product that you have to replace 3 times in 15 yrs. Look at the builder crap windows in millions of homes across this country. Where is the website called buildersucks.com?? Companies go out of business all the time. You cannot find parts for builder grade windows in cities all over the world. Talk about a scam.

I appreciated the above post, and unemotional opinion of someone who worked for the company when it was strong and respected. Again, I never worked for them. But geez, already, go to fordsucks.com and bitch at them. They deserve to go out of business also.

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