Visitor Feedback Book 3!

Each author has sworn under penalty of perjury that everything in their message is absolutely true. No post is edited or deleted unless the author requests it (duplicate or off-topic posts may be deleted).

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More Visitor Feedback #140

Wednesday, August 17th 2005 - 05:37:18 PM

From: Robert Terrel
E-Mail: Private
Subject: feed back to #119

yeah i was a great employee and when i started getting screwed i realized it because i am not that STUPID to not realize they were going out of business. That message was for gary kluck not those who havent been paid. I did drugs and still was the most respected person there at the sacto call center. Those who have not been paid should have the talent to find something else if you dont have the talent then you should not have been paid to begin with. Yeah i had sexx on Gary Klucks desk yeah i did drugs but those of you in the sacto call center that i trained just remember what you learned from me because you can go and make yourself a goodliving with those skills. I was very respected and its a shame that i couldnt explain that the company was going out of business. Move on and file suit but dont just sit on your ass unemployed because your better than that and those who tried to screw me and get me fired. SCREW YOU I got paid!!!!! thats all i have to say. By the way i am drug free now and i have a beautiful wife that wasnt Stupid enough to go down with the ship.


More Visitor Feedback #139

Wednesday, August 17th 2005 - 05:37:05 PM

From: you'll Know who this is
E-Mail: Private
Subject: feed back to #119

yeah i was a great employee and when i started getting screwed i realized it because i am not that STUPID to not realize they were going out of business. That message was for gary kluck not those who havent been paid. I did drugs and still was the most respected person there at the sacto call center. Those who have not been paid should have the talent to find something else if you dont have the talent then you should not have been paid to begin with. Yeah i had sexx on Gary Klucks desk yeah i did drugs but those of you in the sacto call center that i trained just remember what you learned from me because you can go and make yourself a goodliving with those skills. I was very respected and its a shame that i couldnt explain that the company was going out of business. Move on and file suit but dont just sit on your ass unemployed because your better than that and those who tried to screw me and get me fired. SCREW YOU I got paid!!!!! thats all i have to say. By the way i am drug free now and i have a beautiful wife that wasnt Stupid enough to go down with the ship.


More Visitor Feedback #138

Tuesday, August 16th 2005 - 08:05:18 PM

From: someone who WAS WATCHING
E-Mail: Private
Subject: sacto scum

HELLO EVERYONE I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WILL FIGURE WHO I AM AND DON'T CARE. ALONG WITH NOT GETTING PAID,IT SICKENS ME TO KNOW THER ARE STILL 4 PEOPLE OR SHOULD I SAY DUMB F!@#$ WORKING THERE. F.T, F.M., J,S AND M.S. wHAT REALLY GRIPES ME IS i AM A REP AND PULLED IN SAC OFFICE FROM TIME TO TIME WHAT I SAW WAS ODDTHERE'S J.S LEAVING DRUGS IN THE LAVATORY, M.S. WITH HIS THUMB UP HIS A## and F.T. and his (good friend) ha ha barb having a great time in a car. I have met f.t. wife. What a mistake F.t hope you beautiful wife dosen't read this. and as for f.m. get a life you are a big mouth with nothing to say. Hope F.t. And B.s. are very happy.

More Visitor Feedback #137

Tuesday, August 16th 2005 - 10:13:38 AM

E-Mail: Private


More Visitor Feedback #136

Monday, August 15th 2005 - 07:10:45 AM

From: n/a
E-Mail: Private
Subject: STORM DOOR window removal

look at the TOP of window track in the grooves U will see a little metal tab on both sides...with your fingernail or small screwdriver pop out the BOTTum of the tabs...then raise the bottum sash all the way up and the sash balancers will catch on those tabs and the window will disengage and come out. After reinstalling the window sash, be sure to push in those tabs or next time u raise the window in may disengage when u dont want it too.. hope this helps

More Visitor Feedback #135

Saturday, August 13th 2005 - 05:46:24 AM

From: screwed2
E-Mail: Private
Subject: Responce to Post # 132

I do not not know the facts regarding the business history of Pacesetter corp. & Pacesetter corp. of America. Most likely few do since most of the info coming down the pipeline from the top down was Bull Shit. It appears though that when the Shragers sold Pacesetter that at least some of these Thugs were employed with Pacesetter. Pacesetter and Diversified were split, Pacesetter going to the Thugs and Diversified retained by the Shragers. Was not Iskra in litigation for the same exact business practices prior to and during this time. Aloe and Iskra allready had a history of dismantling companies, sucking them dry and ripping of their employies, customers, vendors, services and any one else in their path. It seems to me that they probably had at least a small hint that maybe they were turning their lifelong business venture and the lives of how many employees careers and futures over to a bunch of GREEDY STEP ON PEOPLE TO MAKE A BUCK THUGS! Come on, they at least looked the other way and took the money from the sale and put the fox in charge of guarding the chicken house. As you said Pacesetter had an obligation to use Amerifirst as the first option as financing for all their financed customers. Do you really think they have only recently been receiving complaints from customers. I know of customers who never had their improvements compleated from a year and a half ago, were harrased by Amerifirst even prior to the first payment because they called them with concerns of uncompleted work, paid of their loans some in amounts exceeding $20,000 and still haven't been able to have the liens removed from their property. What happened to the "First payment isn't scheduled untill 30 days after the contracted work is COMPLETED" They can't sell, refinance or borrow and where do you think thier credit scores went. When a lender buys notes from a merchant or provider of services and that merchant starts ripping of their customers they cut them OFF! Maybe they ran Pacesetter as a good clean venture with high moral and ethical standards for many years. I don't know I wasn't there years ago, but guess what they sold out, took the money and continued doing business with GREEDY STEP ON PEOPLE TO MAKE A BUCK THUGS! Many of these folks can't pay off their notes. Many probably won't pay off their notes. Many will probably bankrupt and wo'nt be paying either. Boo Hoo for Amerifirst. F..K THEM TOO!

More Visitor Feedback #134

Friday, August 12th 2005 - 08:26:35 PM

From: Richard
E-Mail: Private
Subject: It was time to go!

I worked For Pacesetter at their Lenexa, Kansas branch for less thean a month. That was all it took to figure out something wasn't right. First, they got rid of their cleaning crew, innocent enough, they dropped their health insurance to employees, then they cut back from offering five items, to offering one item. Being in business for 42 years, and not able to offer all those original items, told me something wasn't right. My gut, told me to get out and get out now. I rarely go against my gut feeling and thank God I didn't this time. The timeline from my employment with the Pacesetter was April/May of 2005. They still owe me for four hours, if I would have stayed, It would have been more.

More Visitor Feedback #133

Friday, August 12th 2005 - 07:59:23 PM

From: private
E-Mail: Private
Subject: pacesetters owner

Let,s hear it for the owner of pacesetter..........GARY I.gnorant S.hithead K.isses R.aunchy A.ssholes ........................................................... Not only does Gary Iskra kiss raunchy assholes, he eats caca also.

More Visitor Feedback #132

Friday, August 12th 2005 - 04:52:35 PM

From: KC Gal
E-Mail: Private
Subject: To Tiredofbeingscrewed

AmeriFirst is NOT Pacesetter. AmeriFirst (formerly Federal Divirsified Services) is the finance company in which Pacesetter was required to use on it's deals, until they (AmeriFirst) "bank rejected" a deal, from where Pacesetter's credit department attempted to get the loan purchased from another lender.

Unfortunately for the customers, all they (AmeriFirst) will do is collect your money for business which was installed. Many customers (in the past) had threatened to not pay for their improvements, but unfortunately, this will only damage their credit.

I'm quite certain the folks at AmeriFirst are less than friendly, as they deal with at least hundreds of customers daily who are needing services, have questions, etc. Please keep in mind if you choose to contact them, they are NOT Pacesetter, and they are not to be held responsible for the problems of Pacesetter.

More Visitor Feedback #131

Friday, August 12th 2005 - 09:20:18 AM

From: tiredof beingscrewed
E-Mail: Private
Subject: contact information

I too got screwed by Pacesetter,INC. After much time and research, I found the following contact infromation:
Pacesetter is now called AmeriFirst Improvement Finance
-The address is 4405 South 96th Street, Omaha, NE 68127-1210
Phone number is 402-505-6300. They are not the most pleasant people to talk too.

More Visitor Feedback #130

Friday, August 12th 2005 - 09:19:26 AM

From: Ntvpride
E-Mail: Private
Subject: Owed Money

I am former manager with pacesetter. I was a in the grand rapids call center my entire time with the company. I left in March of last year. At that time I was owed over $4500.00 dollars in bonus money for Feburary and March, they told me that I was not employed on the last day of the month for March I was not entitled to the bonus. I held several management positions with pacesetter, I left because of the way that the company was going. I am now glad that I left when I did, It has been a year since I informed the company about my money owed me and I am still waiting for that, so to all of you that waiting for your paychecks good luck.

We all need to band together in a class action lawsuit against Iskra and Madden because they should not get away with what they are doing to us. I just hope that Bill Bowden is not involved with all this mess, because he is a stand up guy.


More Visitor Feedback #129

Thursday, August 11th 2005 - 08:38:32 PM

From: KC Gal
E-Mail: Private
Subject: ABC News 20/20

I just want you all to know that although Pacesetter owes me nothing, I've emailed John Stossel, asking for his help - for customers, employees, and vendors. I've included some of the information that I've read in here, inlcuding the San Antonio news broadcast.

I hope something good comes of this. I'll stay in touch!

More Visitor Feedback #128

Thursday, August 11th 2005 - 08:06:04 PM

From: KC Gal
E-Mail: Private
Subject: Call For Action?

Ok folks...I've seen tons of you talking about wanting your money. Are you reading this information? Are you looking at the various news coverage about the company?? There is enough information here that all you need to do is contact your local news stations, tell your story to any "Call for Action" type group they probably have, and get them on it! You know where the "new" Pacesetter is - give them all the info, and let the news people get to the bottom of it. The fact is, unless one of you actually files a suit against the company (and it could be class action at that), then you're screwed! And ONE of you isn't going to be able to financially pull it off - not even to get it started. Let's face it - the majority of Pacesetter's ex-employees can't afford to do it on their own!

It's going to take each of you to do this...from vendors to employees. So vent here, and then take some real action!!!! If you want me to contact the news stations in your area - let me know. I will help you if you can't do it yourself!

If David could beat Goliath on his own, what do you think all you people together can accomplish? But it all starts with YOU.

More Visitor Feedback #127

Thursday, August 11th 2005 - 05:40:08 PM

From: cranberry ex-employee
E-Mail: Private
Subject: Looking for Cranberry Ex-employees

I need cranberry ex-employees to contact me At If you our owed monies from Pacesetter.
Please leave a number where you can be reached in a email.
I need to talk to you. ASAP

More Visitor Feedback #126

Thursday, August 11th 2005 - 12:27:52 PM

E-Mail: Private


More Visitor Feedback #125

Wednesday, August 10th 2005 - 08:47:55 AM

From: ex employee Cranberry
E-Mail: Private
Subject: News travel fast

Through a source I heard Pacesetter is now Weather Master Of America. and moved to the US Steel Building 3 weeks ago.
It is my understanding they have a space on the 56th floor.
Although the Sales Manager's voice-mail still rings through at the Cranberry office. Their in business.

We need to come together, and fight this battle. I need ex-employees, homeowners, vendors to come forth with their identity and how much this corporation has screwed them.
PLEASE FORWARD ALL INQUIRIES TO THIS E-MAIL ADDRESS; if you our more comfortable you can leave the information on this web-site or send it to me.
I need everyone's full attention. We need to quit living in the problem. And look for a solution. AND WE NEED TO START RIGHT NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

More Visitor Feedback #124

Tuesday, August 9th 2005 - 06:25:59 PM

From: unpaid
E-Mail: Private
Subject: Bring out your dead and ring in the new

The grapevine says Pacesetter corp. of America is now done and the "NEW" company got almost 3 mill from some a-hole investors and is up and running. If this is true, think they will get a return on their money?

More Visitor Feedback #123

Tuesday, August 9th 2005 - 12:23:29 PM

From: SAK
E-Mail: Private
Subject: I have a question...

Does anyone know how to remove the window on a storm door?

More Visitor Feedback #122

Tuesday, August 9th 2005 - 12:16:22 PM

From: Vern VanderStelt
E-Mail: Private
Subject: PaceSetter owes us almost $5000 bucks!

I own a cleaning serice called "Image Janitorial" we cleaned there offices in Grand Rapids Michigan, After not being paid (this was last fall) we quit, we called people and never got a reply, one day we got a reply from some one in there main offices saying that they need the invoices so they can pay and that was the last time we heard from them. We filled 2 small clam law suits, on the day we had to be in court, no one showed up from pacesetter, they sent no response. So the judge sent a letter saying they had 21 days to pay or we can go after thier assets or money in the bank. Trouble is since they arent from Michigan we need to know the name of the bank they deal with, the bank that they pay thier employees. Trouble is how do we find this out? theres no numbers or nothing. If anyone could help us out finding the bank they deal with. It would be a great help, if it helps us to get paid even some of what they owe us, i'll give who ever helped us a reward. my e-mail is

So does anyone have the bank that they deal with? thats what the court needs. after hearing all these horror stories i doubt i will get my money

More Visitor Feedback #121

Monday, August 8th 2005 - 09:26:01 PM

From: KC Gal
E-Mail: Private
Subject: Interesting Info...

Well I found some interesting information on the 'net tonight. It probably doesn't mean much, but I like to think if I can be a pain in Iskra's ass, I'll try it. If everyone is having such a difficult time contacting anyone from Pacesetter, why not contact the realtor who sold them their new office space? Maybe he can give everyone some answers? If nothing else, he'll be sorry he dealt with Gary Iskra. This was dated June 13, 2005, saying the deal was to take place in July. (You must have Adobe Acrobat to read the following doc):

Here's an article from the Pitt Tribune-Review, dated July 6th, saying the company had already moved, and was considering opening another location in another PA county:

Here's some more fun Gary Iskra info. This one floored me " barred from violating the Consumer Protection Law in the future and must permanently forfeit his right to own or operate a water filtration business in the Commonwealth." That site is:

And I'm sure everyone has seen that Mark Aloe is involved in this same type of thing with his company back in the 90's:

Welp that's all the goodies I've found so far. I'm sure some of you have already seen it. I figure there's got to be at least 3 different ways to start making these frauds step up to the plate.

Legally, do unpaid employees have any chance of a class-action lawsuit? Do any of the customers have any chance of one? I'd say anyone who has any legal counsel should find out...

More Visitor Feedback #120

Monday, August 8th 2005 - 07:41:44 PM

From: Grand Rapids Office
E-Mail: Private
Subject: Bankruptcy

I had also done some research as to weather Pacesetter filed for bankruptcy in Michigan and there are no records that show this. #116 are you saying the Willingon address and phone number is Pacesetter? Does anyone actually know how they can be contacted phone and or address? This information will help as far as anyone trying to collect through the Labor Board. If and or since they dont show that they have gone bankrupt, we do have a change of collecting.

More Visitor Feedback #119

Sunday, August 7th 2005 - 02:15:38 PM

From: KC Gal
E-Mail: Private
Subject: The Desk Jockey

A nice big overpayment for ya huh? That sure must make you feel great seeing as how there are tons of former Pacesetter people who simply want what they've earned. It sounds like you were a real quality employee. I'd reckon probably the most you ever gave to the company must still be on Gary's desk. You're a real winner. You've got all that extra money, so why don't you get back to your crack smoking and desk-screwing? We wouldn't want that difficult typing to ruin your buzz...

More Visitor Feedback #118

Sunday, August 7th 2005 - 11:05:19 AM

From: i wonder who this is
E-Mail: Private
Subject: gary kluck

God Bless sonnys market oh by the way you paid me 73 hours of vacation when i only had 30 earned, you wanted to get rid of me cause i am a little smarter than you think i am especially for doin drugs. you are a fuck stick and that big cherry desk you had in tacoma yeah i fucked a hot bitch on it 10X so smell it ya sick perverted bastard and thanks for the overpayment.

More Visitor Feedback #117

Saturday, August 6th 2005 - 02:39:01 PM

From: cranberry ex-employee
E-Mail: Private
Subject: Joe D.

I would like to get in touch with you, How about leaving me a number.

More Visitor Feedback #116

Saturday, August 6th 2005 - 08:22:39 AM

From: Joe
E-Mail: Private
Subject: Bankruptcy

I've scoured the public records, and some private stuff I have access to. As those of you who do know me realize I can generally find things out.

First let me lay out part of the paper trail I have:
------------------ NEBRASKA ----------------
In Nebraska the Secretary of State has "THE PACESETTER CORPORATION OF AMERICA" (entity # 10055802) listed as a FOREIGN ENTITY. Meaning they are incorporated in another state, specifically DELAWARE. Registered with NE 2-26-2004, taking a new name with NE 4-13-2004.

-------------------- DELAWARE -------------------------
Here are the details for DELAWARE:
File Number: 3754383 Incorporation Date / Formation Date: 01/20/2004
Entity Kind: CORPORATION Entity Type: GENERAL
Residency: DOMESTIC State: DE


State: DE Postal Code: 19808
Phone: (302)636-5401

-------------BANKRUPTCY - BOTTOM LINE ---------
Bankruptcies are generally public record. I'v searched in NE, PA & DE and have found nothing. If they had filed bankruptcy, I'd think they'd be quick to disclose that to anyone suing them as bankruptcy offers them protection from the debt. The fact that they incorporate in DE, makes me wonder if DE provides some benefit or protection to corporations. I havne't had time to research this.

----------- MORE BACKGROUND - INSURANCE -----------
In Feb 05, before they officially admitted they had been stealing our Ins Premiums, I had already contacted the FEDERAL department of labor in KC (Nebraska's regional office.) I gave them the numbers for Omaha & Pitt. The person in KC called me back a month ago. She stated that she'd been trying to get a hold of the the company and NO ONE would return her calls. This shouldn't surprise any of us as we all know the cowards we worked for.

--------------- EVEN MORE - MICROSOFT ----------------
Now that I've gotten my 401k and I'm not too concerned about them screwing with me. I'm pleased to announce I'm (one of the atleast 3 people that I know of) who called MICROSOFT to report their BLATENT piracy of software. Exposing how they had 10 licenses of XP and had put it on EVERY old PC they had. Among other things.

There's more, but hopefully those of you who have been SCREWED by these guys will take some comfort in knowing that I did quite a bit to expose these THUGS - before I even left the building...

To everyone that's been screwed, keep trying to get what you are owed, don't give up. At very least the THUGS will pay - one way - or another.

To Gary & Mark - here's to you! You WILL be getting yours - sooner or later.

More Visitor Feedback #115

Saturday, August 6th 2005 - 12:06:39 AM

From: grand rapids office
E-Mail: Private
Subject: Does anybody really know?

Sorry to seem nieve, but does anyone know if Pacesetter actually did file for bankruptcy? If so when? What state? What chapter? Case number? Any information would be helpful. FYI-If in fact they did, all that filed with the Labor Board, the file will be closed. They will not be able to help us. All would have to file with the courts to obtain what monies are owed.

More Visitor Feedback #114

Friday, August 5th 2005 - 08:46:27 PM

From: private
E-Mail: Private
Subject: payback is a bitch!

Gary (f#######) Iskra, Mickey (asshole) Madden, and Gary (shithead) Kluck, your day of reckoning is coming for what you have done to employees, vendors, and customers! How does it feel, Gary to have your yacht called Direct Sails seized by the feds? That is just the start of the shit you guys will go through. Could not happen to a nicer group of jackasses.

More Visitor Feedback #113

Friday, August 5th 2005 - 09:49:45 AM

From: Life is great
E-Mail: Private
Subject: Whos winning now

Hi former co-workers

I hear Davy J, Dietz, Bartrom are all together and building alittle dynasty. They took alot of the big guns and constantly laugh at Mickey everyday. I hear they say k k between every word with a pause and in the words of the Bowden they really do got it going on

More Visitor Feedback #112

Friday, August 5th 2005 - 06:09:10 AM

From: Cranberry Ex-employee
E-Mail: Private
Subject: Response to #110

How can you still be affiliated with a corporation who owes millions to employees-venders- and to homeowners that believed we had their best interest at heart. Mr. Kluck if you really sit down and read through this website, it's not all about just the employees, it is about a corporation who took advantage of homeowners and left them high and dry.
Homeowners have problems with a warranty that Pacesetter does not back up. Products that need serviced. And now all of these offices are closed.
Where's the heart of the matter lie. This corporation is run by thugs, only out for themselves, putting money in their own pockets and f*** everyone else. Sure we all have moved on to new jobs. But look at the real picture here Mr. Kluck. How can you possibly earn trust from the next homeowner that you deal with, if this corporation can't set the record straight by cleaning up the mess they left behind. ALL YOU F*****G OWNERS NEED TO HAVE A REALITY CHECK!!!!! THIS WORLD DOES NOT JUST REVOLVE AROUND YOU.
Thank God for this web-site. Apparently your head is still to far up someone's ###. to realize you to will be standing in line at the unemployment office soon enough.

More Visitor Feedback #111

Friday, August 5th 2005 - 12:23:13 AM

From: DW
E-Mail: Private
Subject: SNT Video

As a former employee of Pacesetter, it looks like I got out just in time. I left in November 2004 and at the time the rumors were flying about late and non-payment to all types of vendors.

When I started with Pacesetter in 2002, I thought it was just a temporary thing until something better came along but I excelled jumped into management training, went to Omaha for training etc. I was not entirely sure I would continue with Pacesetter at this point, however, when Iskra took over I found a coattail and a niche and soon I had a nice thing going.

Don't get me wrong, I worked hard, but I had a great degree of flexibility and success for a long time.

Anyway, I ran into another former Pacesetter employee just the other day and was wondering what had happened. He asked if I had talked to Bill M.

When I left last November, I warned Bill M. about what I had been told by a person whose information had consistently been reliable (KS). That was that the company would not be able to make payroll after December unless a certain sale that was being negotiated went through.

Guess things didn't work out.

Anyway, someone in an earlier feedback was wondering if the mysanantonio video could be seen. I found a link to it by searching MSN. Monica Davidson is pretty funny in this one. Check it out:

I was able to watch the video by using this link. Find the video in the list (DA investigating Pacesetter), click it and then play selected video.

More Visitor Feedback #110

Thursday, August 4th 2005 - 10:54:09 PM

From: gary big ego kluck
E-Mail: Private
Subject: PMA

Like I always tell everybody, hard work never equals zero. Now for those of you that worked hard and i did not pay I made money. So If I made you work lots of hours and yelled at you maybe even cursed your effort made me money. Now I do not know why all of you are having a problem just go out and get another job and they can pay you. You see we are installing all the jobs you sold and collecting the money but do I have to pay you? So like I was saying your hard work never equals my zero. Yes I know my ideas and thoughts are a dicktator but aren t you all stupid. I don t want to tell you when your going to get paid because it is none of your business. Maybe we will pay you maybe we wont but get back to work or if you quit you sucked anyway.So now if you do not mind I have to go run a lead to show that I to can sell and not get paid because Gary Iskra owes me 120k and I am the owner. Does that make you feel like we are going through same thing. Oh yea I forget to mention all the things I say are part of my anger management class so F#$$ you. But really I am a nice guy just ask me. But do not ask me for money. PUT THE RESPONSIBILITY WHERE IT BELONGS. Thats number 3 of my being a sucessfull man. #7 Pay your employees.

More Visitor Feedback #109

Thursday, August 4th 2005 - 06:02:49 PM

From: Cranberry Ex-Employee
E-Mail: Private
Subject: Mr. D

Well you got the subject::: Right this time (just joking)

Lee would not know about Chili. And who might Bill M. be, never heard of that name.
It's funny now that I think of it, every time you called and asked for Mr. Ladimore, He was always in the back smoking and we sometimes put you on hold forever. SORRY!!!!

I would like to know your insight on Pacesetter, care to share your views and opinions. I am all EARS.....

You could bring up Sexual Harrasement to Mr. Ladimore that might right a bell. But the Chili won't do it.

Didn't he remind you of The Looney Tunes Old Simidy Sam..
Just a little, but with cowboy boots and a cigarette instead.

More Visitor Feedback #108

Thursday, August 4th 2005 - 02:53:37 PM

From: Joe
E-Mail: Private
Subject: To: Cranberry Ex-employee

I have no interest in knowing about Joe Shuttee, hopefuly he's working for a living for a change.

As far as Bill Boden, I talked to him once, when I was in MPLS closing the telemarketing dept there back in 99ish.

Would Lee know about "Chili" if I asked him? Lee L & Bill M are the only two guys from the field I've heard from at all since leaving Pacesetter.

More Visitor Feedback #107

Thursday, August 4th 2005 - 02:20:19 PM

From: Cranberry Ex-employee
E-Mail: Private
Subject: Joe D.

What the hell, do you want with Lee Ladimore, supposively he just sold his house and moved to Texas. That was very recent. He's in the deck remodeling business.
I would like to remain annotomous.(or how ever you spell that word) How about the QUEEN herself is on the website.
She was so far up Larry Krempaski's !!!. Is she not there anymore!!!! She finally came to her senses IT JUST SUCKS WORKING FOR FREE.

I thought the Corporate Guys knew everything about the 3 stooges. Well, I guess you learn something new everyday.
So Mr. D. have you been in contact with Joe Shuttee, I always thought he was a nice guy. Where might he be now???

And Bill Boden (Great-Guy) Here is a hint if you still talk to him, Ask him about Chili. Then you will know who I am.

More Visitor Feedback #106

Thursday, August 4th 2005 - 02:04:01 PM

From: Del Peterkin
E-Mail: Private
Subject: How we screw the employees

We bounce their checks and then only pay the wages later, much later. (We tell each employee we will pay the fees they had to pay when the checks bounced.) But we never do pay the fees.

More Visitor Feedback #105

Wednesday, August 3rd 2005 - 02:44:45 PM

From: Joe
E-Mail: Private
Subject: To 103 & 104

Sorry paranoid person. I should have had the subject as:
To: ex-employee Cranberry
From: To cranberry ex-employee

Just relax, I am definitely me. I'm curious who you are??? You knew my buddy Lee, who incidentally I haven't talked to since June when the SNT station did the first video. If I called him, would he be able to tell me who "ex-employee Cranberry" is - have you kept in touch with him?

More Visitor Feedback #104

Wednesday, August 3rd 2005 - 11:44:48 AM

From: ex-employee Cranberry
E-Mail: Private
Subject: reponse to #103

If you are an ex-cranberry employee I guess you can't be
Joe D. cause he was out of the corporate office and Joe D. use to call for Lee Ladimore who use to be our Manager before they kicked him back to Texas. So Who Are You REALLY!!!!
Or is it a secret. You know secrets keep you sick.....

More Visitor Feedback #103

Tuesday, August 2nd 2005 - 02:46:20 PM

From: To cranberry ex-employee
E-Mail: Private
Subject: Latest

I escaped the sinking ship back at the end of April. As far as who's left there and what's going on, I'd rather not say as I don't want to alienate any of my sources. Largely what I know about the who and what I'm keeping to myself. When it comes to Iskra & Aloe and the demise of the company however, I'll dish what I can substantiate. I have a bit to offer, but I'm waiting for this guy to add another feedback page... So who are you that you talked to me regularly? If you know me and have my number, give me a call.

More Visitor Feedback #102

Tuesday, August 2nd 2005 - 01:18:00 PM

From: cranberry ex-employee
E-Mail: Private
Subject: Joe D.

Aren't you one of the Corporate guys, Why are you on this website, or did they all screw you too. I use to talk to you almost daily, out of the cranberry call-center.
And Where the hell is Bill Boden in all this, Is he still working for the mob quad, or did he move on to bigger and better things.

More Visitor Feedback #101

Monday, August 1st 2005 - 02:18:42 PM

From: the SWAN
E-Mail: Private
Subject: Mikey or Rick

Hello guys!! Did ya miss me? didnt think I would go quietly into the night did ya? love ya!

More Visitor Feedback #100

Monday, August 1st 2005 - 12:53:45 PM

From: Joe
E-Mail: Private
Subject: More Press for the thieves

They are a brief footnote in this article

More Visitor Feedback #99

Monday, August 1st 2005 - 11:07:08 AM

From: Does It Really Matter
E-Mail: Private
Subject: Bankruptcy and Labor Laws

My question is "Does anyone know for absolute certanity that Pacesetter has filed bankruptcy? If so please let me know.

Just FYI: To all of you that filed wage complaints with the Labor Board.......if indeed Pacesetter has filed for bankruptcy then "NO" you will not be able to recoop any monies they owe you for back pay. You then become just like any other creditor and wait in line until all is settled and "MAY" recoop a portion of your loss. No guarantee however.

More Visitor Feedback #98

Monday, August 1st 2005 - 08:33:38 AM

From: Jim Fischer
E-Mail: Private
Subject: Pacesetter Nightmare


Sorry to hear about your nightmare with Pacesetter. We were a supplier of theirs and recently received a judgment in excess of $30,000 against them. My understanding is they have moved out of the Omaha area, possibly to the Pennsylvania area (Pittsburgh???).

I was wondering if you might have information that might help us track them down so we can attempt to collect on our judgment.


Jim Fischer, CCE
Corporate Credit Manager
Midwest Hardwood Corporation

More Visitor Feedback #97

Sunday, July 31st 2005 - 12:43:13 PM

From: Pacesetter Hater
E-Mail: Private
Subject: Labor Board

Alot of us filed with the labor board in an attempt to collect our pay for working in the month of may. We filed the end of may and were told it could take up to (3) months. Question is does anybody actually know when Pacesetter filed for bankruptcy? It is true that once they do file for bankruptcy when cant collect even through the Labor Board? Any input would be appreciated.

More Visitor Feedback #96

Saturday, July 30th 2005 - 05:34:06 PM

From: David Face
E-Mail: Private
Subject: Lack of followup-customer be danmed

It is now July 30th 2005. Pacesetter's phones are now disconnected. I understand (from the Corona, CA sales office) they were going to go BK)

They are not very nice people and if they are still around I hope at least one potential buyer will go elsewhere for their needs.
Following was my attempt at resolution through Small Claims Court. Note I copied in the home office with no response what so ever from them. All t heir offices aare g uilty of totally ignoring complaints.

Customers be damned!

May 31, 2005

The Pacesetter Corporation
140 N. Maple St. Suite 104
Corona, CA 92880
Tom Budiselic, District Sales Manager

Corporate Headquarters
4343 South 96th Street
Omaha, NE 68127

Chronology of events:

11/21/04 Contracted by check of deposit of $1,000.
Job started on 1/11/05
Job completed on 1/14-05
A check was requested and provided at the completion of the job. This was $15,300 for a total of $16,300. Both checks have long since cleared.

Installer was Mr. Tom Kingston (I understand he is no longer employed by Pacesetter)

Complaint consists of the following: My wife and I were promised complete satisfaction re the products and workmanship. Further we were told there would be a quality inspection at the end of the job.

At the completion of the job Mr. Kingston wrote up a report to his superiors because there were two doors that had been made that were incorrectly cut. The result is they do not operate correctly. They are hung on the wrong side. His advice to us was this was a routine �fix it� order and they would order new doors and install them. It would take two weeks was his advice.

There is a molding at the base of my microwave oven that will scrape your knuckles when you open the doors. In addition that particular molding pieced rather than a single piece of wood. That is not satisfactory.

I called the Corona office and complained to �STEVE� on 2/18/05. The result was he sent out an installer on the same day. He inspected the problem. He didn�t disagree with the complaint. He measured the doors.

On 3/14/05 I called Mr. Budiselic and complained. I told him I�d call h is national headquarters.

On 3/15/05 M Mr. Jim Parker came out, took photographs and measurements.

I have called many times. I have talked to Tom Budiselic, Sales Manager in Corona. Al Kanngierser, National Manager of Quality Control in headquarters, Omaha, NE.This was on 4/5/05. Mr. Kanngierser listened carefully and advised me he would check it out. He noted at the time we were talking that he found the order in the computer and noted it was still �open�, not a completed deal. On 4/12/05 I called Mr. Kanngierser back. I left him a message to call me back. It never happened.

On 4/15/05 I called �Debbie� at what I would call the �REGIONAL OFFICE� in Sacramento. She listened and advised me she would look into the problem. A Mr. Tony Belton who has the title of �Production Co-coordinator� in Corona called me. Mr. Belton told me the problem was a change in vendors. They were working on the problem and that there were others with the same problem.

Mr. Tony Belton called about 5/1/05 and advised my wife that the parts would be shipped
about 5/6/05

On 5/16/05 I called Mr. Belton and was advised, �We are working on it�

It should be noted that what should have been a simple �fix it� job has turned into a real super hassle.

It is apparent that this company is lacking in integrity and has no sense of honesty in dealing with the public once they have been paid.

I still don�t have a �quality� inspection even though they have dispatched two installers.

They have never denied that I have a legitimate claim. They do not return telephone calls. They are now approaching FIVE MONTHS for what they told me would be two weeks to repair.

I am requesting the maximum allowed under law for this breech of faith so that I may hire a cabinet worker to come in and repair what should have been a routine job. The maximum of $5,000. would cover my expenses.

David C Face
2663 Maryknoll Dr.
Colton, CA 92324

More Visitor Feedback #95

Friday, July 29th 2005 - 01:09:01 PM

From: Chuck Hardin
E-Mail: Private
Subject: windows and doors

My wife and i had Pacesetters come out and replace our windows and doors in 2001 now we are having problems with service. We will never do business again with this company nor will we buy any of their products. The screen doors we got you are suppose to be able to clean them with just a rag and water. We can't get them clean with windex. They are the worst screen doors we have ever seen. They have came out and made adjustments to our doors several times in the first year we bought them. They now neede adjusting again but we can not get ahold of anyone for service. The screens were suppose to be the kind you can't tear that is another lie we have holes in them. We called they said they charge 60.00 an hour. So we have been trying to get a hold of someone so we can get new screens and replace them ourselves. We paid over 5000.00 for screen doors and storm windows we thought for that price were getting all new windows not just storm windows. The doors will not shut by themselves we have to slam them to get them closed. Our dogs have got out several times because of these doors. The screen doors we had were better then these that we got at hoods discount house at least they would shut by themselves. We paid 20.00 dollars for our screens.

More Visitor Feedback #94

Thursday, July 28th 2005 - 10:32:09 PM

From: Danny Lindekugel
E-Mail: Private
Subject: layed off

well i hate pacesetter. i was layed off on monday the 28th of july. ever since may i have been barley hangin on. they bounced a check on me in may,(never got re-embursed) and have been workin up until two weeks ago. i finally realized what a shitty company i was workin for. i was working in the Corona office (southern california)but told the boys in sac that nobody in corona was workin till we got paid. that's me (installer) another installer, the P.C. and the last remaining salesman. along with telling them we weren't workin we held $100,000.00 from them and said they wouldn't see there money till we all got paid. they sent us each one check (not the full amount owed) and said we would be paid in full by the following week if we would all work thru the weekend and get some jobs hung. well obviously i haven't been paid. i took up my $6,000.00 claim with the California Labor board, but they said if the company goes bankrupt im never gonna see my cash... so my question is, since i can't get anyone to pick up a phone at any of the offices, is pacesetter goin down??? or just changing there name... any help/ answers/ advice would be appreciated. Also if anyone knows of any good window companys with some good work/ business ethic that are hiring in southern cali, let me know. thanks, danny

More Visitor Feedback #93

Thursday, July 28th 2005 - 12:44:42 PM

E-Mail: Private

Dear joe D. I would like to thank you for that information about mark and now that i know what is going on i will be taking legal actions,I have waited to long and worked to hard not to get my money and now you have set the pace,HA HA HA,I did like the visit's when you came to our grand rapids office.You and Bill Boden are cool.I just hope this is not a trick,i will be taking actions.Thank's for the information MR D.

FROM ?????

More Visitor Feedback #92

Thursday, July 28th 2005 - 12:36:09 PM

From: helpful info
E-Mail: Private
Subject: helpful pacesetter info

For anyone looking for a release that was never properly removed from your property, Amerifirst @ 800-228-2179 actually answers the phone. I would like to thank the person that left a whole list of numbers. However I don't think Larry Krempsky @ 412-607-1438 was too happy to hear from me. He did suggest I contact Amerifirst. Micky Madden @ 724-910-1010 even returned my call. He did give me a real working number for Pacesetters of 724-741-2100.

More Visitor Feedback #91

Thursday, July 28th 2005 - 02:52:13 AM

From: Wendy
E-Mail: Private
Subject: Question

I am wondering how to get in contact with this company? There website is down and when I call the number I have all I get is a voice message to leave a message and of course, no return call. Any ideas?!?!?

More Visitor Feedback #90

Wednesday, July 27th 2005 - 01:07:09 PM

From: Dr. Pamela Jenkins
E-Mail: Private
Subject: Pacesetter Sucks!!!

This company is a huge fraud and someone should seek legal advice and file a lawsuit against this company. These people need to pay for their horrible customer service and over charges on their cheap products!

They are LIARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have never known of a company to operate as horrible as they do. WHen I was younger, I fell prey to the mail in, envelope stuffing jobs, and I was able to retrieve my $19.95 from them and they moved around!

With pacesetter (and the name is not capitalized for a reason), I have spent well over $2000.00 on windows, patio and screen doors. They are a complete rip off and I am so happy that you have this website. Unfortuantely, like you, I reserarched the company, went to the BBB and couldn't fnd anything negative, and now that I am living my own pacesetter nightmare, all I see and hear is negativity about this God awful company.

I am truly considering a class action lawsuit and I will definitely keep this website in mind. We need to get as many people together as we possibly can to sue the pants off of these jerks!

All the best,

P.S. I guess you can tell I am just a tad bit angry!

More Visitor Feedback #89

Tuesday, July 26th 2005 - 05:12:28 PM

From: Christine Wong Hayes
E-Mail: Private
Subject: My Experience With Pacesetter

March 18, 2005

To the Pacesetter Company:

This letter is in regards to home improvement jobs that your company has done at our home beginning in spring of 2003. Our initial experience with your company began when two salesmen came to our home and sold us a steel door for approximately $1200. These men made us guarantees such as we could get the door in the color of our home-needless to say this was not true as fact we found out much later. They also said the job would be done in a timely manner another untruth. It took approximately two months before we heard from Pacesetters. We were informed that the two men no longer worked for the company and the contract that we signed had to be redone as it was written incorrectly. Well we got our door however a few weeks later we had to have a service technician out because the door was not closing properly. The service tech informed us that the screen door had not been installed properly. After this experience my husband and I decided we would not use Pacesetters again.

Fast forward almost two years later. My husband and I decided that we wanted to update our kitchen and bathrooms. As we were walking through SAMS Club we saw the demonstrators from Pacesetters and I convinced my husband to give Pacesetters a try again. On a Saturday evening Don Ferguson came to our home and made his sales pitch. As all good salesmen do they charm you, try to make you feel as if they are your old chum and will promise you their first born. Mr. Ferguson made a great pitch-telling how the laminate we would be using to refinish our cabinets was of the highest quality and pacesetters stands by their work and if we were not satisfied with the job we did not have to pay. We also recounted the story of our front door (which by the way had no peephole- to which Mr. Ferguson said he would have one cut into the door.) So once again we signed the contract and trusted Mr. Ferguson and Pacesetters at their word.

On December 11, 2004 Kevin (who hails from Kansas) began the process of refacing our cabinets. Needless to say we were thrilled with the prospect of having a newer looking kitchen just in time for the Holidays. On Monday December 13, 2004 Loren, the window installer, came to install the new kitchen window we had purchased through Pacesetters. According to him (Loren) it had to be done that day. As a result, the sink had to be removed so that the window could be installed. This left us without access to our sink for two weeks because a new sink could not be put in without the new counter top which was not scheduled to be in until the job was nearly completed. Our family which is comprised of five children ranging in age from 11-1 years old had to live with this awful inconvience for two weeks. As matter of fact Loren did not finish his part of the job, Kevin had to reseal and fill the window. According to Kevin, the counter top was expected to come in by the end of the week of December 17, 2004. However when it did arrive it was not the correct size and had to be cut down. Kevin commented that he had wanted to leave for Kansas on December 22. During this time we were still without a sink and had to rely on using our downstairs bathroom as our makeshift kitchen. We will not begin to discuss the inability to cook. In order to complete the job, a second workman was brought in to assist Kevin with the counter. They were able to cut down the counter top, install it and even went to Home Depot and purchased a sink which they left in the box , on the floor in my dining room and said that the plumber should take care of it. This occurred around December 20-21 2004. When my husband came home and saw that the newly purchased sink was left in the box he got on the phone and called Lex regarding the sink being left on the floor. My husband asked Lex if Kevin should have placed the sink in the hole that was cut out in the counter top to which Lex said yes. My husband then told Lex that he would have a plumber come out and put the sink in and deduct the cost from our payment to Pacesetters. Lex said he would send someone out to correct the problem. The workman came out but a placed the sink into the counter but did not clamp it down (essentially he just took the sink out of the box and placed it into the hole.) By this time Kevin had already left for Kansas.
A few days later the door to the pantry fell of and almost hit our one year old daughter. We had also noticed that there were tiny holes in the molding and all the doors were loose and the cupboard door in the master bedroom also fell off. I decided to stop payment on the check because we were not pleased and Pacesetter had not lived up to their guarantee. My husband contacted Lex and informed Lex of what had happened and that we had stop payment on the check . Lex sent out Daryl to correct the problems. Daryl came out on a Saturday and fixed the pantry doors, the cupboard door in the master bedroom and tightened the cupboard doors in the kitchen that he discovered were loose. Daryl stated that the screws that were initially put in were too short. He was unable to fill the holes in the molding because he had the wrong color, so he said he would be back. Approximately one week later the molding to the right of our refrigerator came off. We contacted Lex and he said when Daryl came back to fill the holes he would fix that as well. I also contacted Don Ferguson, the salesman that we dealt with. He said he would be out to look at the job once it was completed and that Lex and Daryl would take care of the problem. This all took place during the beginning of January 2005. Daryl came and fixed the remaining problems. However my husband and I were not satisfied because we noticed that there were some things that were not up to standard. For example, the caulking was not properly done, cabinets were uneven, the molding was not even and there were gaps between the molding and the wall. I contacted Lex and explained to him that we would not be sending the check as we were not pleased.
It was at this time that Brian Sitwell got involved because we had not paid the remaining balance on the contract and he said that he could not start installing our windows until the balance kitchen refacing job had been paid. I explained to him that we were not pleased and would not pay for work that was incomplete. My husband spoke to Brian and reiterate what my concerns were and why we were withholding payment. Brian in speaking with my husband called me a liar because I had said I was sending a check but did not send it. My husband explained to Brian that he stopped the payment and asked where the office in Corona was because he wanted to see him face to face. My husband went on to ask Brian how long he had been in the home improvement business, to which he replied twenty years. My husband then stated to Brian that if he was in the business for twenty years and had a customer that was not satisfied to the point of withholding payment, then maybe he better go over and take a closer look for himself and for customer perception (even if he could care less at least the customer thinks he does). Brian and Lex came to our home at my husbands urging to see firsthand what our concerns were. When they arrived they were appalled at the workmanship and agreed that the job was poorly done. (Brian apologized to me for his statement.) They agreed to send Daryl again to fix the problems they noted. These problems were: loose cabinet doors caused by short screws, molding that was falling of, the caulking around the counter top was poorly done cabinet doors were uneven. Daryl came back and corrected the problems and we paid the balance that was owed on February 1, 2005.

A week later Loren, the window installer along with two other workers came to install our windows. The completed the job in one day. We were pleased with the installation of the windows, however we later noticed that the screen by the eating area of our kitchen had a tear, the installers also disconnected and severed the wire to the back sliding glass door alarm. We were also missing a screen for our downstairs bathroom. We contacted Pacesetters regarding these matters and they sent a repairman who stated that the screens were on backorder. He did fix the screen with the tear. Since that time we have noted the following: We have noticed that the window in our daughters bedroom is too small, the wood below our sliding glass door is clearly visible and exposed to the elements and the screen that was replaced in the kitchen is bent and too small. After receiving a phone call March 17, 2005, I contacted the repairman who stated that there was still backorder on screens; I also informed him about the exposed wood, screen not fitting and the window that is too small. I would also like to mention that during the month of March, a repairman was sent out to fix a drawer that had broken off in the kitchen. We have noticed that the doors in the kitchen continue to sag, the laminate is peeling and the molding that was repaired has fallen off again.
We would like the aforementioned concerns addressed and corrected in a timely manner. We will be forwarding a copy of this letter to SAMS Club corporate office, the Better Business Bureau and the Sate Attorney General.


Christine and Lester Hayes

More Visitor Feedback #88

Monday, July 25th 2005 - 11:04:26 PM

From: Ron Skaggs
E-Mail: Private
Subject: our pacesetter nightmare

My wife and I were approached by phone, and set up a date to speak with a Pacesetter sales rep, shortly after we moved into our new home. It needed a patio cover and after their sales pitch we decided to purchase enough to cover our two back doors. They assured us that we could add onto it at any time.

A year goes by and we are liking our new patio cover. We call Pacesetter and they send out another sales rep and we agree on a price for the rest of our patio. This was in August of 2004. Their guys from Sacramento came and measured and said they would be ready in a few weeks to install it. In January of 2005 we still hadn't heard from them so I called. I was told that they had cancelled my contract because they had changed their product line and didn't carry my model anymore. No one had called us. They just cancelled it without any notice. I told them that I would really like to finish my patio cover and they agreed to search for my model. I received a call a few weeks later and they said that they had found enough to finish my patio but I would need to sign a new contract. Fine. So we signed a new contract. In February I called Steve Jenkins in the Redding office, left a message asking him to call. He didn't call. I called again in March. Got his answering machine again. I asked for an update on my order and to please call me.. He didn't call.

Finally, in late March I get a call from a Virgil Smith from Pacesetter's Portland office. I told him my story and told him what I thought of their business practices. He was very sympathetic and said he would look into it and get back to me. About a week later he called and said that they didn't have enough of my type of patio cover to do the job but they were still searching. I told him that we had already been assured that the product was available. Why are we being told a different story now? He didn't know.

Everytime I tried to call Virgil Smith, Steve Jenkins, Gary Cluck or anyone else with Pacesetter all I ever got was their answering machines. Never a call back. Never. All I could do was wait for them to call me months later.

Finally, in July I get a call from Phil Heiss' office telling me that they cannot find any of my patio cover and they were going to have to cancel my contract. Again. I asked about my $500.00 deposit that they had charged to my credit card and I was told that I would have to take that up with their finance department. I called that very day and all I got was thier voice mail.

At my last phone conversation I was told that Pacesetter was moving their company to Pittsburg, Pa. When I called the Omaha, NE office all I got were answering machines. The Better Business Bureau cancelled their membership because of all the complaints. So they left town. With my money. Who knows if I'll ever get it back.

More Visitor Feedback #87

Monday, July 25th 2005 - 07:57:11 PM

From: R Pechovnik
E-Mail: Private
Subject: Info in MN

My mother got sucked in like the lot of you and we have had trouble with most of the pacesetter merchandise.
I am wondering if there is any legal information in Minnesota that I should be aware of.

More Visitor Feedback #86

Monday, July 25th 2005 - 06:27:00 PM

From: and you think your getting paid
E-Mail: Private
Subject: and the band plays on...

Carnegie Museums of Pittsburgh elected Suzanne Broadhurst as chair of its 60-member Board of Trustees.

Recent Company News
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Ms. Broadhurst is director of corporate giving for Eat'n Park Hospitality Group, Homestead. She is married to Jim Broadhurst, Eat `n Park CEO.

She is a life trustee of Carnegie Museums of Pittsburgh and a member of its executive committee, and serves on the board of Carnegie Science Center, North Side.

She succeeds Frank Brooks Robinson Sr., who has chaired the board for the past six years, serving the limit of two consecutive terms. Mr. Robinson is president of the Regional Industrial Development Corp., a private, nonprofit economic development corporation.

At the same June 13 board meeting, the following people were elected as life trustees: James Wilkinson, executive vice president of Meritcare, Inc.; Lee Foster, chairman, L.B. Foster Co.; and Jack Barbour, president of Klett, Rooney, Leiber & Schorling.

Elected as new term trustees were Mark Aloe, president, Brite-House Electricians; Esther Bush, president and CEO, Urban League of Pittsburgh; Charles Burke Jr., program director, The Grable Foundation; Mark Evans, president and CEO, Confluence Technologies, Inc.; and Henry Gailliot, Staley Capital Advisors.

Elected to their second terms as trustees were Robert Bozzone, chairman, Allegheny Technologies Inc.; Jared Cohon, president, Carnegie Mellon University; James Diggs, senior vice president/general counsel, PPG Industries, Inc.; George Eichleay, president and CEO, Eichleay Holdings Inc.; Daniel Sandman, general counsel, secretary and vice president, human resources and public affairs, U.S. Steel Corp.; and Alexander Speyer III, vice president, North Star Coal Co.

Each life, new or second term trustee also serves on at least one of the four Carnegie Museums boards.

Elected as an emeritus trustee was Milton Fine, chairman, FFC Hospitality Corp., who has

More Visitor Feedback #85

Monday, July 25th 2005 - 05:24:53 PM

E-Mail: Private
Subject: DEJA VUE: read these court documents


No. 96-3237

similarly situated salaried individuals,



individuals, jointly and severally, and



(D.C. Civil No. 95-cv-01615)

Argued: November 26, 1996
Before: GREENBERG, ALITO, and ROTH, Circuit Judges:

(Opinion Filed: April 28, 1997)

Lee R. Golden, Esq. (Argued)
Todd T. Zwikl, Esq.
Suite 660 USX Tower,
Pittsburgh, PA 15219

Attorneys for Appellants

Jay Flowers Conti, Esq. (Argued)
One Oxford Centre, 20th Floor
300 Grant Street
Pittsburgh, PA 15219

Wendy E.D. Smith, Esq.
1500 Oliver Building
Pittsburgh, PA 15222

Clem C. Trischler, Esq. (Argued)
Raymond G. McLaughlin, Esq.
38th Floor
One Oxford Centre
Pittsburgh, PA 15219

Attorneys for Appellees



ALITO, Circuit Judge:
Under Pennsylvania law, when a corporation fails to pay
wages and benefits that it owes its employees, the corporation's
top officers can be held personally liable for the non-payments.
See, e.g., Carpenters Health and Welfare Fund v. Ambrose, Inc.,
727 F.2d 279, 282-83 (3d Cir. 1983); see also Antol v. Esposto,
100 F.3d 1111, 1119 (3d Cir. 1997). The purpose of this rule is
to give top corporate managers an incentive to use available
corporate funds for the payment of wages and benefits rather than
for some other purpose. Carpenters, 727 F.2d at 282-83. Holding
the managers personally liable serves to give them an incentive
not to divert funds away from the payments owed to employees.
The issue raised by this case is what happens when their company
files a Chapter 11 bankruptcy petition and the employees seek to
recover from the corporate managers for unpaid vacation and
retirement benefits that were allegedly earned in the pre-
petition period, but that became due only in the post-petition
period. The filing of a petition for bankruptcy under Chapter 11
of the Bankruptcy Code bars the payment of pre-petition claims by
the company. See 11 U.S.C. � 362 (providing for automatic stay
of creditors' efforts to seek repayment); In re Eagle-Picher
Indus., Inc., 963 F.2d 855, 861 (6th Cir. 1992). The question,
then, is whether, in this context, where, by law, the company's
managers have no discretion to order payment of the amounts owed
to the employees, they can simultaneously be held liable for not
making the payments. We think not.
The Shenango Corporation ("Shenango") is a
Pennsylvania-based producer of coke and iron products. In
December 1992, Shenango filed a voluntary petition for relief
under Chapter 11 of the Bankruptcy Code. A group of Shenango's
former employees (the "employees") claim that they are owed
specific sums of money for vacation and supplemental retirement
benefits. They filed this action pursuant to the Pennsylvania
Wage Payment and Collection Law ("WPCL"), 43 Pa.C.S.A. � 260.1 et
seq. The employees' complaint asserted that Mark and Andrew
Aloe, as officers of Shenango, were personally liable for the
benefits payments not made by Shenango.
The WPCL arms Pennsylvania employees with a statutory
vehicle for the collection of unpaid wages and benefits and
provides for penalties to be imposed for non-compliance. See 43
Pa.C.S.A. � 260.1 et seq. The WPCL defines an "employer" to
include "every person, firm, partnership, association,
corporation, receiver or other officer of a court of this
Commonwealth and any agent or officer of any of the above-
mentioned classes employing any person in this Commonwealth." 43
Pa.C.S.A. � 260.2a. The definition of an "employer" under the
WPCL has been held to include a corporation's highest ranking
officers, because they are the persons who are likely to have
"established and implemented the policy for the non-payment" of
the wages and benefits at issue. Carpenters, 727 F.2d at 283.
In addition to providing for civil remedies and penalties, see 43
Pa.C.S.A. � 260.9a, the WPCL also provides for criminal
penalties, see 43 Pa.C.S.A. � 260.11a.
The employees in this case are seeking recovery of
vacation pay and supplemental retirement benefits. If Shenango
had not filed for bankruptcy, it appears that the Aloes, as
officers of Shenango, might indeed have been personally liable
for the claimed amounts. Any sums that may have been due and
owing by Shenango prior to the filing of the Chapter 11 petition
appear to fall within the ambit of the WPCL and, thus, arguably
were residual obligations of the Aloes. The employees' claims
here, however, arose out of the post-petition cessation of the
employees' benefits. The claims arose out of pre-petition
obligations, but arose with respect to payments that came due in
the post-petition period.
The employees originally brought their action in
Pennsylvania state court. The Aloes then removed the action to
the United States District Court for the Western District of
Pennsylvania pursuant to the bankruptcy removal statute, 28
U.S.C. � 1452, which generally permits the removal of any claim
or cause of action if the district court has subject matter
jurisdiction under 28 U.S.C. � 1334. From there, the matter was
referred to the bankruptcy court. The bankruptcy court granted
Shenango's and the Aloes' motions for summary judgment on the
ground that the WPCL was pre-empted by federal bankruptcy law.
The district court affirmed the grant of summary judgment, but
not based on pre-emption. The court reasoned that because the
filing of a Chapter 11 bankruptcy petition operated to barShenango from making payments on debts, such as the employees'
claims, that came due in the post-petition period, the purpose of
the WPCL would not be furthered by holding the corporation's
officers personally liable. We affirm.
A. Subject Matter Jurisdiction
The employees question whether the bankruptcy court had
subject matter jurisdiction over this matter. They argue here,
as they did before the district court, that (1) the Aloes' claim
for indemnification against Shenango is barred by 11 U.S.C. �
502(e)(1)(B) because it is a contingent claim against the
bankrupt estate, (2) the Aloes' indemnity claim is barred by the
terms of Shenango's confirmed plan because the Aloes did not file
a timely proof of claim before the bankruptcy court, and (3) the
Aloes' indemnity claim was a collusive attempt to manufacture
In analyzing the question of subject matter
jurisdiction, the district court first looked to the relevant
statutory sections. Pursuant to 28 U.S.C. � 1334(b), a district
shall have original but not exclusive
jurisdiction of all civil proceedings arising
under title 11, or arising in or related to
cases under title 11.

Under the above provision, the answer to whether there
is subject matter jurisdiction depends on whether the cause of
action "aris[es] under," "aris[es] in," or is "related to" a case
under title 11 -- in this case, the Shenango bankruptcy
proceeding. See 28 U.S.C. � 1334(b).
The employees are suing the Aloes for nonpayment of
amounts allegedly owed to them by Shenango. Based on an express
provision in Shenango's by-laws, the Aloes have an
indemnification claim against Shenango. The district court held
that, at a minimum, the existence of this indemnification claim
demonstrated that the employees' claims against the Aloes could
conceivably have an effect on the bankruptcy estate and therefore
satisfied the "related to" test. Hence, the court determined
that there was subject matter jurisdiction over the cause of
In Pacor v. Higgins, 743 F.2d 984 (3d Cir. 1984), we
explained that:
the test for determining whether a civil
proceeding is related to bankruptcy is
whether the outcome of that proceeding could
conceivably have any effect on the estate
being administered in bankruptcy . . . .
Thus, the proceeding need not necessarily be
against the debtor or debtor's property. An
action is related to bankruptcy if the
outcome could alter the debtor's rights,
liabilities, options, or freedom of action
(either positively or negatively) and which
in any way impacts upon the handling and
administration of the bankrupt estate.
Id. at 994 (internal citations omitted; emphasis in original).
Pacor holds that the reach of "related to" jurisdiction
is very broad, extending to any action the outcome of which
"could conceivably have any effect on the estate being
administered in bankruptcy." Id.; see also Donaldson v.
Bernstein, 104 F.3d 547, 552-53 (3d Cir. 1997). Based on the
broad reach of the term "related to," we agree with the district
court's determination that it had subject matter jurisdiction
over the employees' action. In fact, Pacor specifically notes
that contractual indemnity claims can have an effect on a
bankruptcy estate and thus provide a basis for the exercise of
"related to" jurisdiction. 743 F.2d at 995; see also A.H. Robins
Co., Inc. v. Piccinin, 788 F.2d 994, 1001 (4th Cir.), cert.
denied, 479 U.S. 876 (1986).
The employees' attacks on the district court's
determination that there was subject matter jurisdiction are
misdirected. The employees' first two arguments are that the
indemnification claims are barred since (1) the claims were
contingent and (2) timely proof of claim was not made. As the
district court pointed out, however, the question whether the
claims are barred is one for none other than the bankruptcy
The employees' third argument is that the Aloes'
indemnification claims represent a collusive attempt to
manufacture jurisdiction and are therefore barred under the
collusive joinder provision of 28 U.S.C. � 1359. This provision
A district court shall not have jurisdiction
of a civil action in which any party, by
assignment or otherwise, has been improperly
or collusively made or joined to invoke the
jurisdiction of such court.

The district court pointed out that it was unclear
whether Section 1359 even applied to federal question cases,
i.e., non-diversity cases. But whether or not it applied, the
court held that the "collusive joinder" claim failed because it
was not supported by any evidence. We agree. The employees
state in conclusory fashion that the Aloes' indemnity claim
against Shenango was pretextual and was asserted solely in order
to create federal jurisdiction. The only explanation the
employees give for their conclusion is that "Shenango has never
defended against [the Aloes'] third party claims for indemnity."
But we do not see why Shenango should necessarily have defended
against the Aloes' claims if the claims were valid -- as they
appear to be under Shenango's by-laws. In sum, the employees
have failed to show error in the district court's analysis of
subject matter jurisdiction. Cf. Sterling Nat'l Mortgage Co., v.
Mortgage Corner, Inc., 97 F.3d 39, 44 (3d Cir. 1996) (conclusory
allegations are not sufficient to survive summary judgment).
B. Removal
An issue not raised by the employees, but raised by us,
sua sponte, is whether, notwithstanding the existence of subject
matter jurisdiction, removal was proper under the general removal
provision, 28 U.S.C. � 1441(b). This provision states:
Any civil action of which the district courts
have original jurisdiction founded on a claim
or right arising under the Constitution,
treaties or laws of the United States shall
be removable without regard to the
citizenship or residence of the parties. Any
other such action shall be removable only if
none of the parties in interest properly
joined and served as defendants is a citizen
of the State in which such action is brought.

The Aloes, as defendants, do not contend that they are
citizens of a state other than the one in which the action was
brought, i.e., Pennsylvania. Accordingly, if 28 U.S.C. � 1441(b)
applies to this case removal was proper only if the action is
one that "aris[es] under" federal law within the meaning of that
Whether this is so is an interesting question. On the
one hand, the employees' action plainly asserted a claim under
state law (namely, the Pennsylvania WPCL), and federal law
appears to have been implicated in the form of a defense to the
state law claim. Cf. Robert A. Ragazzo, Reconsidering the Artful
Pleading Doctrine, 44 Hastings L. J. 273, 275-76 (1993)
(defendant cannot create federal question jurisdiction by
pleading federal defenses to state claims alleged in state
court). On the other hand, if we are correct in holding that the
district court had subject matter jurisdiction under 28 U.S.C. �
1334(b) -- and we believe that binding precedent plainly dictates
that conclusion -- and if the jurisdictional grant set out in 28
U.S.C. � 1334(b) is based on the "arising under" jurisdiction of
Article III of the Constitution, it must follow that the
employees' action is one that arises under federal law for
constitutional purposes.
We need not, however, attempt to resolve the question
whether the removal in this case was improper under 28 U.S.C. �
1441(b). The issue of improper removal was not raised at the
time of the removal, and any claim was therefore waived. Where a
case could have been originally filed in federal court but there
is an irregularity in its removal from state court, that
irregularity is waivable. See Korea Exch. Bank v. Trackwise
Sales Corp., 66 F.3d 46, 50 (3d Cir. 1995). In other words,
since this cause of action could have been brought originally in
federal court, any defects in the removal of the case from state
court were "procedural," as opposed to "jurisdictional," and were
thus waivable. Id. As the Supreme Court said in Grubbs v.
General Elec. Credit Corp., 405 U.S. 699 (1972):
We have concluded that, whether or not the
case was properly removed, the District Court
did have jurisdiction of the parties at the
time it entered judgment. Under such
circumstances the validity of the removal
procedure followed may not be raised for the
first time on appeal.

Id. at 700; cf. Caterpillar Inc. v. Lewis, 117 S. Ct. 467, 475
(1996) (citing Grubb).
The substantive issue in this case is whether the
employees can sue the Aloes, as officers of Shenango, under the
WPCL for Shenango's non-payment of certain pre-petition benefits
that became due to the employees in the period after Shenango had
filed for bankruptcy. The district court rejected the employees'
WPCL claim because the failure to pay benefits by Shenango
occurred after the bankruptcy petition was filed. The court
reasoned that the failure to pay was caused by the Bankruptcy
Code's prohibition on Shenango's making such payments, and not by
the Aloes' voluntary choice to refrain from making them.
The WPCL provides, with respect to fringe benefits and
wage supplements, that
[e]very employer who by agreement deducts
union dues from employees' pay or agrees to
pay or provide fringe benefits or wage
supplements, must remit the deductions or pay
or provide the fringe benefits or wage
supplements, as required, within 10 days
after such payments are required to be made
to the union in the case of dues or to a
trust or pooled fund, or within 10 days after
such payments are required to be made
directly to the employee, or within 60 days
of the date when the proper claim was filed
by the employee in situations where no
required time for payment is specified.

43 Pa.C.S.A. � 260.3(b).
The WPCL further provides that
[a]ny group of employees, labor organization
or party to whom any type of wages is payablemay institute actions provided under this

43 Pa.C.S.A. � 260.9a(a) (emphasis added).
The parties do not dispute that under the WPCL the top
management of a company can be held liable for wages that are
owed by the company. The dispute here is over whether the
employees' claim is for benefits that were "due and payable"
under the WPCL. The district court held that they were not since
federal bankruptcy law operated to prevent these benefits (which
came due after Shenango filed for bankruptcy) from being "due and
payable." We agree.
The liability of corporate managers under the WPCL is a
"contingent" liability, i.e., it is contingent on the
corporation's failure to pay debts that it owes. See Laborers
Combined Funds of W. Pa. v. Mattei, 518 A.2d 1296, 1300 (1986)
("the only apparent purpose [of holding managers liable for wages
and benefits not paid fully by the company] was to subject these
persons to liability in the event that a corporation failed to
make wage payments") (emphasis added); accord Carpenters, 727
F.2d at 282-83. Once a corporation files a Chapter 11 petition,
however, it is obligated to pay wages and benefits only to the
extent required by the bankruptcy workout. Cf. In re Ribs-R-Us,
Inc., 828 F.2d 199, 203 (3d Cir. 1987) (describing the effect on
a debtor of the filing of a petition in Chapter 11). Hence, when
a corporation under Chapter 11 fails to make payments that the
Bankruptcy Code does not permit, the contingency needed to
trigger the liability of corporate managers under the
Pennsylvania WPCL never occurs. Here, Shenango was current on
all of its payments in the pre-petition period. The employees'
claims are for amounts that technically came due in the post-
petition period. Since the corporation was not permitted by law
to pay these claims in the post-petition period, the contingency
of the amounts becoming "due and payable" under the WPCL did not
occur, and hence the managers were not personally liable.
This conclusion is consistent with the goals underlying
the WPCL. Pennsylvania's purpose in holding the agents and
officers of a corporation liable for unpaid wages and benefits is
to give those agents and officers an incentive to pay wages and
benefits while the corporation still has the resources to do so.
See Mohney v. McClure, 568 A.2d 682, 685 (1990), aff'd per
curiam, 604 A.2d 1021 (1992). Put differently, the WPCL seeks to
deter corporate managers from diverting corporate funds that are
meant to go towards paying wages and benefits. For example, one
could imagine a situation in which a firm is under the threat of
bankruptcy and the managers' primary concern is saving their jobs
(i.e., keeping the company out of bankruptcy) as opposed to
paying the employees from the available funds. In such a
situation, managers might be tempted not to use available funds
to pay wages and benefits owed to the employees. Instead, they
might be tempted to employ the funds in a high risk gamble that,
if successful, might prevent bankruptcy and hence save the
managers' jobs but that most likely will fail and result in a
loss of the funds. See, e.g., Susan Rose-Ackerman, Risk Taking
and Ruin: Bankruptcy and Investment Choice, 20 J. Legal Stud. 277
(1991); cf. Robert K. Rasmussen, The Ex Ante Effects of
Bankruptcy Reform on Investment Incentives, 72 Wash. U. L. Q.
1159, 1162 & n.16 (1994).
Given that the purpose of the WPCL is to deter managers
from strategically diverting company resources away from the
payment of wages and benefits, it makes sense for the WPCL to
apply in only those contexts in which the managers have room to
behave strategically. Indeed, the courts have applied the WPCL
in precisely this manner. In Mohney, the court refused to hold a
corporate secretary liable for unpaid wages and benefits, where
the secretary, who earned no more than a small retainer, had no
role in the corporate decision making processes. 568 A.2d at 686
(liability under the WPCL is premised on the person being held
liable being an "active decision mak[er]" in the context of
deciding not to pay the employees); see also Central Pa.
Teamsters Pension Fund v. Burten, 634 F. Supp. 128, 131 (E.D. Pa.
1986) (absent some indication that the defendant exercised a
policy-making function in the company, he could not be held
liable under the WPCL).
The logic of Mohney applies to this case. Shenango
was current on its payments to the employees up to the point of
filing for bankruptcy. Once Shenango filed for bankruptcy,
however, management no longer had the power to choose not to use
the corporation's funds to pay wages. Specifically, once
Shenango went into bankruptcy, bankruptcy law compelled it to
refrain from paying the employees' claims. In this context, it
is easy to see that management was not in the position of an
"active decision maker" vis-a-vis choosing not to pay employees
benefits that technically became due in the post-petition
period. Therefore, the WPCL did not come into play.

The employees, however, argue that the district court's
decision was inconsistent with the applicable case law. In
particular, they point to Mohney and Adams v. Benjamin, 627 A.2d
1186 (1993). We disagree with the employees with respect to both
In Mohney, the plaintiff was asserting claims for wages
that allegedly had been accrued but were only partially paid at
the time of filing for bankruptcy. 568 A.2d at 684. The
employees read Mohney to hold that claims for wages that were
accrued at the time of the filing for bankruptcy, but that did
not come due until after the filing of the petition, were valid
under the WPCL. We do not read Mohney to say any such thing.
The language in Mohney to which the employees point is the
portion of the opinion in which the court articulates the claim
made. Id. The court then, without holding whether or not the
wage claims in and of themselves were valid under the WPCL, seeid., rejected the plaintiff's claim since the defendant played no
active decision-making role in the non-payment of the wages and
benefits at issue. See id. at 686.
Adam is inapplicable because that case did not involve
the question of what happens to wages and benefits that are
accrued pre-petition, but come due only in the post-petition
period. 627 A.2d at 1189-90. Instead, in Adam, the wages and
benefits at issue appear to have come due prior to the filing of
the bankruptcy petition. Id. at 1189.

The decision of the district court is affirmed.

GREENBERG, Circuit Judge, concurring and dissenting.

I respectfully dissent in part in this case which
is of enormous significance under bankruptcy law. As the
majority points out, Shenango Corporation in December 1992 filed
a voluntary petition for relief under Chapter 11 of the
Bankruptcy Code. A group of Shenango's former employees sought
to recover specific sums of money for vacation and supplemental
retirement benefits earned before the petition was filed but due
in the post-petition period in an action under the Pennsylvania
Wage Payment and Collection Law ("WPCL"), Pa. Stat. Ann. tit. 43,
� 260.1, et seq. (West 1992). The employees brought the action
against Mark and Andrew Aloe, officers of Shenango, in a
Pennsylvania state court, but the Aloes removed the case to the
district court which then referred it to the bankruptcy court.
The Aloes then filed a third-party complaint against Shenango
predicated on an indemnification agreement. The bankruptcy court
granted the Aloes and Shenango summary judgment against the
employees' claims, and the district court affirmed. The
employees then appealed to this court.
The majority makes a comprehensive analysis
upholding the bankruptcy court's exercise of subject matter
jurisdiction, and I join this portion of its opinion. The
majority then defines the "substantive issue" as "whether the
employees can sue the Aloes, as officers of Shenango, under the
WPCL for Shenango's non-payment of certain pre-petition benefits
that became due to the employees in the period after Shenango had
filed for bankruptcy." Typescript at 13. The majority points
out that employers must pay "fringe benefits and wage
supplements," "as required" by the WPCL, and that employees may
institute actions to collect such items if they are "payable."
Id. at 14. The majority recognizes that the top management of a
company can be liable under the WPCL but characterizes their
liability as being "contingent on the corporation's failure to
pay debts that it owes." Id. at 14. It then indicates that once
the corporation files a petition under Chapter 11, "it is
obligated to pay wages and benefits only to the extent required
by the bankruptcy workout." Id. The majority then concludes
that the bankruptcy and district courts reached the correct
result because "when a corporation under Chapter 11 fails to make
payments that the Bankruptcy Code does not permit, the
contingency needed to trigger the liability of corporate managers
under the Pennsylvania WPCL never occurs." Id. at 15.
The majority contends that its result is
consistent with the goals underlying the WPCL. It reasons that
Pennsylvania law holds agents and officers liable "to give [them]
an incentive to pay wages and benefits while the corporation
still has the resources to do so," typescript at 15, citing
Mohney v. McClure, 568 A.2d 682, 685 (Pa. Super. Ct. 1990), aff'd
per curiam, 604 A.2d 1021 (Pa. 1992). It then concludes that
"[g]iven that the purpose of the WPCL is to deter managers from
strategically diverting company resources away from the payment
of wages and benefits, it makes sense for the WPCL to apply in
only those contexts in which the managers have room to behave
strategically." Typescript at 16. The majority supports this
conclusion by citing Mohney v. McClure and Central Pa. Teamsters
Pension Fund v. Burten, 634 F. Supp. 128, 131 (E.D. Pa. 1986),
for the proposition that only decision makers in the corporation
can be liable under the WPCL.
According to the majority, the logic of Mohneyapplies here because "[o]nce Shenango filed for bankruptcy . . .
management no longer had the power to choose not to use [its]
funds to pay wages [because] bankruptcy law compelled it to
refrain from paying the employees' claims." Typescript at 17.
It thus concludes that "the WPCL did not come into play." Id. at
I reject the foregoing analysis. Under the WPCL,
the definition of employer encompasses "every person, firm,
partnership, association, corporation, receiver or other officer
of a court of this Commonwealth and any agent or officer of any
of the above-mentioned classes employing any person in this
Commonwealth." Pa. Stat. Ann. tit. 43, � 260.2a. For clarity,
in applying this definition throughout this opinion I distinguish
"statutory employer(s)" from "conventional employer(s)." Under
the facts of this case, the corporation, Shenango, was the
employer in the conventional sense; that is, the employer who
actually paid wages and benefits to the employees (when such
payments were made). Under the WPCL, however, both a corporation
and its agents and officers are deemed "employers"; I call the
agents and officers "statutory employers."
For purposes of these proceedings, there is no
doubt but that the Aloes are agents or officers of Shenango and
are thus the employees' statutory employers. In fact, the
bankruptcy court said as much for it indicated that "[a]bsent
bankruptcy, the Aloes, in their positions as officers of
Shenango, would have been liable for claimed amounts pursuant to"
the WPCL. Indeed, the majority does not suggest otherwise.
Thus, in analyzing this case we undoubtedly must start from the
premise that had there been no bankruptcy and Shenango had not
made the payments, the Aloes would be liable under state law;
again the majority does not suggest otherwise.
The majority characterizes agents' and officers'
liability as a "contingent" liability which comes into play when
the corporation does not make the payments it owes. I do not
believe that the majority uses the term "contingent" in a
technical or legal sense for the WPCL requires that "[e]very
employer . . . must remit the deductions or pay or provide the
fringe benefits or wage supplements" as required by the WPCL. Id� 260.3(b). Inasmuch as the Aloes are employers, their
responsibility under the WPCL was as primary as that of Shenango.
Yet, as a practical matter, I have no quarrel with the
characterization of their liability as "contingent"; undoubtedly
in the ordinary situation, the corporation, or conventional
employer, pays the benefits; the liability of its agents or
officers as statutory employers is significant only when the
conventional employer does not make those payments.
But whether we characterize the Aloes' liability
as contingent or primary makes no difference. There cannot be
the slightest doubt but that the legislature contemplated that if
the corporate employer, i.e., the conventional employer, did not
make the payments required under the WPCL, then the decision-
making agents and officers as statutory employers would be liable
for them. This liability cannot be avoided by the majority's
conclusion that the agents and officers should not be liable
because the corporation lawfully could not make the payments.
Nothing in the WPCL even remotely can be read to excuse the
agents and officers as statutory employers, in this case the
Aloes, from liability merely because the conventional employer,
in this case, Shenango, cannot make the payments. Nor does the
WPCL distinguish a corporation's inability to make payments by
reason of operation of law from its inability to make payments
because it does not have the money to do so.
In fact, whether an agent's or officer's liability
is viewed as primary or contingent, when the corporation as the
conventional employer does not make the payments required by the
WPCL, the parties confront the exact circumstance in which the
legislature contemplated that the employees could hold the agents
or officers as statutory employers liable. Nothing could be
clearer for, as we explained in Carpenters Health and Welfare
Fund v. Kenneth R. Ambrose, Inc., 727 F.2d 279, 282 (3d Cir.
1983) (internal quotation marks omitted), "the [legislature's]
only apparent purpose [for defining an agent or officer as an
employer] was to subject these persons to liability in the event
that a corporation or similar entity failed to make wage
payments." I cannot join an opinion which excuses the agents and
officers from liability at the exact time when it is important
that they be liable because the legislature cannot possibly have
intended such a result.
I also point out that a decision-making agent's or
officer's liability for payments due under the WPCL is not
dependent on a showing of his or her culpability or scienter. As
the Pennsylvania Superior Court explained in Laborers Combined
Funds v. Mattei, 518 A.2d 1296, 1300-01 (Pa. Super. Ct. 1986)
(emphasis in original), "[o]f those courts which have had
occasion to rule on the personal liability of corporate officers
in the face of a corporation's failure to make its required
contributions to various union funds, as provided for in their
collective bargaining agreement, all have, without exception,
held the officer(s) of the corporation personally liable, and
they did so without reference to any proof of culpability or
scienter as a sine qua non to establishing a contravention of the
Act in a civil suit." So there you have it. If, as seems to be
the case, the Aloes were the decision makers, they are liable for
the amounts due under the WPCL and the case should be remanded to
the bankruptcy court for further proceedings.
I respectfully suggest that the majority's
contrary points are unavailing. It points out that the
imposition of agent or officer liability seeks to deter the
corporate agents and officers from diverting to another purpose
"funds that are meant to go towards paying wages and benefits."
Typescript at 16. I certainly agree with that proposition, yet
the fact that an agent or officer who diverts funds may be liable
under the WPCL does not mean that an agent or officer cannot be
liable without diverting funds. Laborers Combined Funds makes
this point clear for in that case even though a bookkeeper
embezzled the money that should have been used to satisfy the
obligations under the WPCL, the officers were liable because
their liability was not dependent on their "culpability or
scienter." We should consider, too, the case of a corporation
which never generated income, i.e., a new business, but which
incurred obligations under the WPCL. In that case there would be
no funds to divert, yet surely the decision-making agents or
officers would be liable.
The bottom line on the diversion theory is this:
there is nothing in the WPCL itself or in the case law to support
a conclusion that an agent or officer can be liable only if he or
she diverts funds that should have been applied to obligations
due under the WPCL. The WPCL is not a trust fund statute
imposing liability only when the agent or officer has misapplied
the res, and thus it should not be treated as a trust fund
statute. Yet by predicating liability on the diversion theory,
the majority treats the WPCL as a trust fund statute. In fact,
the WPCL establishes employers' liability without regard for
trust fund concepts and, as we must on this appeal treat the
Aloes as employers, they are potentially liable and were not
entitled to summary judgment.
The majority contends that inasmuch as the purpose
of the WPCL is "to deter managers from strategically diverting
company resources away from the payment of wages and benefits, it
makes sense for the WPCL to apply in only those contexts in which
the managers have room to behave strategically." Typescript at
16-17. Here Shenango's bankruptcy deprived them of that room.
Yet the cases the majority cites on the point do not support its
conclusion in this case for they merely establish that corporate
agents who are not corporate decision makers are not liable under
the WPCL because they are not statutory employers. See Mohney,
568 A.2d 682, and Central Pa. Teamsters Pension Fund, 634 F.
Supp. 128. The immunity of the officers in those cases stemmed
from the circumstance that they were not decision makers in the
corporation, not from their failure or inability to have
exercised control over the "decision" not to make the required
payments. These cases are not relevant to the issue at hand
which is whether an agent or officer who is a statutory employer,
and who by reason of a bankruptcy loses his or her freedom to
apply the corporate assets strategically, nevertheless remains
liable under the WPCL.
At the outset of this dissent, I said that this
case is of enormous significance to bankruptcy law. I will now
explain why. The principles involved in this case are applicable
in any case in which a person has guaranteed a debt of a bankrupt
corporation. (I use the term "guaranteed" broadly to include co-
obligors, endorsers, and guarantors in situations in which, as
between the debtors, the obligation to pay is primarily on the
bankrupt.) The majority seeks to distinguish this case "from an
ordinary third-party guaranty of a debt," typescript at 18 n.7,
and indicates that it intends to predicate its opinion solely on
an interpretation of the Pennsylvania law as set forth in the
WPCL. Thus, it believes that this case should not have
implications in other contexts.
I believe, however, that this case is not
distinguishable from a case involving an ordinary guaranty. The
majority says that the liability of agents and officers under the
WPCL "is not automatic," but rather accrues only when the
officers exercise decision-making authority with respect to the
challenged nonpayment. Transcript at 18 n.7. However, for
statutory employers the liability arises by operation of law, and
thus to that extent it is indeed automatic. Liability under the
WPCL is not dependent on the circumstances surrounding or the
causes of the nonpayment, whether external to or intrinsic within
the statutory employers. Thus, just like an ordinary guaranty,
the liability of agents and officers under the WPCL is
"automatic." Furthermore, in the case of an ordinary guaranty,
just as here, the creditors call on the guarantor to pay because
the corporation cannot.
The majority's attempt to limit this case to an
application of the WPCL fails for the additional reason that
there is not even a hint in that Act that the liability of a
statutory employer is affected by the bankruptcy of the corporate
or conventional employer. If a court can create a bankruptcy
exception to the statutory employers' liability here, persons who
have made other types of guarantees will seek similar relief.
Accordingly, this case opens a door which will be hard to close.
But even if somehow the impact of this case could be limited to
situations under the WPCL, I nevertheless think that the majority
is reaching the wrong result in this case which in itself is of
great importance.
I close with one final point. The majority
apparently believes that practical considerations require it to
reach its result. It points out that "[c]orporate bankruptcies
are not unusual events" and that corporations in Chapter 11
proceedings are stayed from paying prepetition debts. It thus
indicates that an application of the WPCL in a situation such as
this may result in imposition of "staggering personal liability"
on corporate officers, thereby creating an incentive for
corporations to avoid locating in Pennsylvania. Typescript at
18-19 n.8. The problem with this point is that we are judges,
not legislators, and it is beyond our power to rewrite the WPCL
so as to create a bankruptcy exception in favor of statutory
employers merely because we believe that it would be good for
business to do so.
The majority does not point to a bankruptcy
exception in the WPCL to support its conclusion that the
"staggering personal liability" should not be imposed for the
very good reason that the WPCL does not include any such
provision. Rather, the WPCL imposes liability on statutory
employers without exception under the WPCL. Thus, even under the
majority's view that its result is consistent with the policy of
the WPCL, which I reject, the majority should not read a
bankruptcy exception into that act. Rather, it should heed the
point we made so recently in In re Barshak, 106 F.3d 501, 506 (3d
Cir. 1997), that we "are not free to ignore the clear language of
a Pennsylvania statute merely because by rewriting the statute we
arguably would act consistently with a legislative policy."
In fact, the majority's creation
of a bankruptcy exception in the WPCL has frustrated the purpose
of the Act because relegating the employees to a remedy against
the corporate employer means that they can recover only as
provided in a plan of reorganization or, as I explain below, not
recover at all. This relegation almost surely will mean that the
employees will not receive the payments due under the WPCL.
Thus, I cannot understand why the majority suggests that this
case merely involves a situation where the corporation is
"temporarily stayed, by operation of the Bankruptcy Code,"
typescript at 18-19 n.8, from paying the employees' claims. In
fact, the employees' claims against Shenango largely have been
discharged. Shenango itself%2

More Visitor Feedback #84

Monday, July 25th 2005 - 11:28:16 AM

From: Irma
E-Mail: Private
Subject: Pacesetter Storm Door

Back in May 2005 our back door got dammage in one of the hinches on the very top.We call pacesetter for a raplacement on that part and also replacement on the braker.

We are under the warranty stilland they keep saying those parts are in back order over and over again. I got tire of this game this parts won't cost them but probable 10.00 thos 2 pieces together. They lied to us. They disconect their lines to no answer the phones no more.

I am very angry with this, and would like to see how I can report them and make them to send those 2 parts we need.

We cannot use that door no more if we don't get those parts.

More Visitor Feedback #83

Monday, July 25th 2005 - 06:36:22 AM

From: Robert V. & Judith R. Dunn
E-Mail: Private
Subject: Concerns

To Whom It May Concern,

On June 24th I e-mailed to have someone come and fix the front storm door and two screens. They did e-mail me back and told me that we should be receiving a call shortly. Well?! Still haven't heard from anyone. I have tried all phone numbers given to me by the Better Business Bureau and this includes the number in Little Rock, Arkansas. No answer, not even a answering machine. The only thing I get when I call Pacesetter is an computer generated message.
I tried going on line last week to e-mail you another message and couldn't get into any of the sites. I really am quite discouraged with Pacesetter. We have been doing business with them for quite a few years. Sure would hate this to end. We also would like an estimate to reside our home, shed and build on another bathroom and utility room.

More Visitor Feedback #82

Sunday, July 24th 2005 - 08:38:12 PM

From: alan
E-Mail: Private
Subject: x sidng contractor 4 pacesetter

to start i dont defend pacesetter . they closed okc 2or3 weeks ago i have worked for them in tx, ok,ark,kan,neb,ia,ill,and the dakotas . as a contractor i worked on and off for 12 yrs untill the sale of the company there sales program was a leader most of the sales force have opened there own companys or staffed about any place u can go. when the owners retired and turned the company over to the kids is when customer complants grew and the problems started .when i started for them if u contracted u were the best and the best paid but travel got to us all . ihave worked for other companies to limit my travels but the products they installed were the cheapst they could find and they would go belly up change there name and start screwing people all over again.the only thing ican do is say alot of the places pace.would go no one else would go. i worked my butt off on houses that should have been torn down and all the home owners cared about was a payment 75 or 100 $ the joke was find the worst house and thats ur job . one installer told me i make chicken salad out of chicken crap.or he offten told people that ASKED WHAT DO U DO he replied i polish turds . the warring i give to people who are looking for home repairs stay away from the big names most are based out of state that u live and ur money is not respent where u live . look for people that are refered by someone u khow and trust and have done work for them and they are happy.

More Visitor Feedback #81

Sunday, July 24th 2005 - 07:50:00 PM

From: private
E-Mail: Private
Subject: What?? No KY jelly??

Does it surprise anybody that Iskra and Aloe did not use any KY jelly when sticking it up everybodys poopchute? Hopefully, one day justice will be served and they will get their comeuppance. We can only hope.

More Visitor Feedback #80

Sunday, July 24th 2005 - 05:19:13 PM

From: Unpaid
E-Mail: Private
Subject: Ref. post #80 link to court

More Visitor Feedback #79

Sunday, July 24th 2005 - 02:37:07 PM

From: Joe
E-Mail: Private
Subject: More dirt on Mark Aloe & Gary Iskra

According to this article: the weasel Mark Aloe is the president of "Brite House Electricians" (2826 Penn Ave., Pittsburgh PA 15222. Phone: 412 391-0333.) What's even more scarry is the Carnegie Museum has this snake on their board of trustees.

It also appears the half pint thief has screwed employees out of payroll wages before when he was involved with the "Shenango Corporation:" In that case he appears to have weasled out of it because the wages were due POST bankruptcy. So unless the thieves (Gary Iskra & Mark Aloe) have filed bankruptcy without us knowing it, we should be able to sue them.

More Visitor Feedback #78

Sunday, July 24th 2005 - 11:57:45 AM

From: m healy
E-Mail: Private
Subject: rollers

to #27

I also need rollers for a screen door. Were you able to locate them?

More Visitor Feedback #77

Saturday, July 23rd 2005 - 02:48:00 PM

From: rob terrel
E-Mail: Private
Subject: who are you

yeah i married jennifer harris and i think mike still works for evans glass in seattle at least i got one good thing out of pacesetter i hoe that chinese bastard licalsi chokes on a piece of kung pao chicken that freak

More Visitor Feedback #76

Friday, July 22nd 2005 - 10:55:23 AM

From: Mary Broocks
E-Mail: Private
Subject: windows

we were told at the time of signing the contract with them that if the windows were ever damaged by hail or from breakage of any kind that they would be replaced.But of course,when we called the office they said that they would be out to fix the window and that the window would cost us about 350.00 to have it replaced also we would have to pay them to have it installed and we decided that we would take care of it ourselves.
Then we found were one of the windows was cracked after they had installed it and asked them if they were going to fix it and we never could get them to make it right.

Admin's Response: Yep, that's the Pacesetter Corp we've all come to know and hate!

More Visitor Feedback #75

Thursday, July 21st 2005 - 08:15:03 PM

From: PB
E-Mail: Private
Subject: reply # 74


More Visitor Feedback #74

Thursday, July 21st 2005 - 10:25:10 AM

From: *****
E-Mail: Private
Subject: REPLY #71


More Visitor Feedback #73

Thursday, July 21st 2005 - 09:11:04 AM

From: cantletitgo
E-Mail: Private
Subject: cant forget it

I would like to say to the file #39 you say let it go F#@% that,we all should take a stand and fight pacesetter and we should get our money and more,I have been waiting to damn long For my money and now is the time we should all stand as one,dont get mad get even,you all blame mike and jim.well they dont have anything to do with us not getting our checks,they need a check JUST as well.YOU ALL CAN BLAME LARRY/GARY/THEY LIKE TO BLOW SMOKE UP YOUR ASS AND NO ONE IS TAKING ACTION.Just stop your damn crying and do something about it.JUST THINK OF THIS Mike or Jime is out of a job as well,and they have kids as well,If your not going to do anything about if.SHUT THE HELL UP.


More Visitor Feedback #72

Thursday, July 21st 2005 - 05:33:50 AM

From: ex-Cranberry
E-Mail: Private
Subject: Video Review

I went back and reviewed More Visitor feedback #19 what a joke and I thought we had problems.

More Visitor Feedback #71

Wednesday, July 20th 2005 - 10:01:04 PM

From: PB
E-Mail: Private
Subject: Iskra article- # 57

Read the article and was talking to an old friend- both of us former senior asst's- and if we follow the dates right, Mr Iskra would have been hired as CEO of Pacesetter while this was in litigation. (He was hired as CEO before he bought the company) So the man who Mr. Schrager hired to take his place and "lead Pacesetter into the future", was experienced only in running companies into the ground and screwing employees and customers out of money. And Mr Schrager had no knowledge of this? I'm wondering what the real agenda was.

PS. COOL- A Knobloch reference

More Visitor Feedback #70

Wednesday, July 20th 2005 - 05:53:05 PM

E-Mail: Private
Subject: I FIGURED IT OUT AND THANK YOU.........................

........since being pushed out the door at Pacesetter my life has been great. I get home before all the traffic, spend time with my kids, am not subject to the less then pre-historic psychology, and make more money. Thank you Gary Kluck, Thank you Mickey Madden and thank you Gary Iskra for showing me how its not done in the sales world.

I just signed a contract and recieved a sign on bonus (equal to my yearly salary last year at Pacesetter) simply for showing up and making it thru their 30 probation period. I closed 28 contracts of 34 leads and lost only 3 deals due to poor credit AND 0 TO CNX. The funny thing is I cold called
in the morning and ran my own "BULLSHIT" leads in the afternoon.

I LOVE PACESETTER, Thank you all again, never in my life have I been more happy, more healthy and wise.

I'm allowed to ask the boss here when I'm getting paid, don't need to keep that to myself.

Nothing like a hat trick before lunch on fico's in the 700,
nothing like re confirming you know what your doing.


More Visitor Feedback #69

Wednesday, July 20th 2005 - 12:38:19 PM

From: PB
E-Mail: Private
Subject: response to # 52


More Visitor Feedback #68

Wednesday, July 20th 2005 - 11:33:33 AM

From: cranberry ex-employee
E-Mail: Private
Subject: feedback #61

I am sorry about you geting mixed up with Pacesetter, you our amoung many nationwide who thought and trusted this Corporation to do a good job for you.
May I ask, where our you from. You can call the Department of Labor or file a complaint online.
There our agencies eager in taking complaints online who can help you get through this mess. Here in Pittsburgh PA, every department even the news is aware of Pacesetters actions.
It's sad that all of us Homeowners/employees/vendors had to learn the hard way and pay consequences for a company that is not worth shit. They always say what goes around comes around. Or a quote from Mark Aloe. ("In due time").Their our alot of very unhappy people, because they have encounter some kind problem with Pacesetter.

More Visitor Feedback #67

Wednesday, July 20th 2005 - 08:52:33 AM

From: fired up
E-Mail: Private
Subject: web site

Sorry it was up and running yesterday.

More Visitor Feedback #66

Wednesday, July 20th 2005 - 08:40:05 AM

From: Cranberry Ex-Employee
E-Mail: Private

So it seems Gary Iskra has some Skeletons in his closet, not only does he have a past with sinking Corporations in the ground, his reputation is not that outstanding either.
How does this man live, I surprised he has not been shot at.
He can't continue to hide with the boys in Cranberry forever.

More Visitor Feedback #65

Tuesday, July 19th 2005 - 02:01:42 PM

From: Andrew
E-Mail: Private
Subject: Attention Installation Managers

Dear current and former employees of Pacesetter,

After visiting this website, I found myself angry and visibly upset. I could not believe some of the stories that were told by the numerous disgruntled employees of Pacesetter. Take it from me; I live off my weekly paychecks. Whether it�s getting groceries, paying the bills, or just having money to spend as I see fit, none of that can be accomplished without receiving some form of income. I can empathize with the many employees who have failed to receive their proper earnings from Pacesetter. While I myself have not worked for a company in which I failed to receive a paycheck at the end of a pay period, I have struggled at times when the money was tight. I can only imagine how difficult it must be for the thousands of hardworking men and women who have gone months without seeing as much as a penny from Pacesetter. This is no way to live. I�m sure that there are employees among you that have families to support; down payments have to be made, food needs to be put on the table, and clothes need to be placed on children�s backs.

In case you�re wondering why I�m writing this letter, I�m a recruiter in your industry. Having said that, I would like to take this opportunity to extend an invitation to former or current installation and/or branch managers from Pacesetter who might be interested in a chance to earn a position where he/she will be respected not only as an employee, but also as a human. Although I cannot guarantee that you will be placed in the company that will be conducting interviews, I can assure you that if you�re offered a position and accept, you won�t have to worry about your next paycheck bouncing. If you�re interested in my proposition, feel free to contact me. My phone number is (484) 319-2550. Ask for Andrew Gallowitz.

More Visitor Feedback #64

Tuesday, July 19th 2005 - 01:36:09 PM

From: an ex'er
E-Mail: Private
Subject: I knew I was in trouble when...

As a new rep I was in training and they told me to be at the appt. 15 min. early to "catch them off guard" !!!

I filled my gas tank every other day !!!!!

In my third month on the job, I hit 19 straight leads without getting into a house(not home, not homeowner, in middle of bk, vacant lot, church, etc. etc)

When customers were calling me because it was taking 3 to 4 months for service and I told them in step 3 that we had outstanding customer service(see old pitch book)

On installs, broken glass, metal shards, broken wall frames all over the place and we told them we had "the best installers in the business"

When the telemarketers came back from break, they had runny noses and bloodshot eyes and made about 10 trips to the snack machine.

Every job was put in hold on Thursday nite, right in time for payroll on Friday !!!!!!!

I really, really, really knew I was in trouble when Gary Iskra took over the company.

Now, I am in deep s..t!!!!

More Visitor Feedback #63

Tuesday, July 19th 2005 - 12:48:06 PM

From: Liz
E-Mail: Private
Subject: New website not working either!!

The email you have posted does not work either it says its not there!!

Admin's Response: The person accidentally put a "www." on the front of it. I corrected that and it is working now.

More Visitor Feedback #62

Tuesday, July 19th 2005 - 12:44:34 PM

From: Liz Corsten
E-Mail: Private
Subject: Forgot about another problem

Last winter when they came to "fix" our big window they "fixed" it by putting duct tape on it and let it sit. Needless to say my husband removed it and the piece fell off again! Figure that!

More Visitor Feedback #61

Tuesday, July 19th 2005 - 12:32:53 PM

From: Bill and Liz Corsten
E-Mail: Private
Subject: My windows Suck

My husband and I purchased Pacesetter windows in Jan of 2001. They were installed in April of 2001. Since then we have had tons of problems. First they removed all the trim around our back window and didnt replace it. So I then called the rep and told him and they came back out and put cheap little pine strips on it. Unstained so it didnt match my existing trim. They "made" us a window that is 60"x48" they seperated the two panes with a 12" opening. Well the strip on top of the window kept coming off so we could not open the window to get any air in. After fixing this 4 times they decided, after alot of my complaining, to replace the window with one that had even horizontal panes. The same thing kept happening with the strip you push up the window with, it came off again. They fixed it again 3 times. Of course they tried to charge me $60 everytime but I refused to pay it. We can't open our windows without alot of strength and pushing. It takes two of us to open and close the big window. I even dislocated my sholder trying to get one of the windows up. They are extremely hard to open. The tracks are completly black with grease or something and its not from me because I clean those windows at least 3 times a year. They also have condensation on them all winter long, and in WI thats a big problem. It freezes!! I have tried to contact them for the last 3 months and have sent 4 emails and 3 phone calls. Of course no reponse. I now tried to go online and get a number but they have removed all of the websites on the net. Now I cant do anything about it and have no idea how to go about starting a lawsuit, even if its worth it. These people are completly incompetent of running a business or being honest! If anyone knows what I can do please let me know!

More Visitor Feedback #60

Tuesday, July 19th 2005 - 12:23:34 PM

From: JD
E-Mail: Private
Subject: Could use come loot

I could use some loot. The criminals that have ran what was Pacesetter into the ground have let me with some debt. I'm sure I'm no different that any one else that Pacesetter has screwed over, but I'm atleast taking a creative approach. Any one know how I can drive traffic to my ebay auction? I've seen stuff featured on Jay Leno, the local new, etc. I'm looking to make what I can on what little I have left of Pacesetter.

More Visitor Feedback #59

Tuesday, July 19th 2005 - 09:21:08 AM

From: unpaid
E-Mail: Private
Subject: real estate owned by Gary?



Any person who wishes to be heard shall provide the Clerk with his or her name and residence and the agenda item on which he or she wishes to be heard. Such information shall be on a card provided by the County. An individual has three minutes and a person representing an organization has five minutes to address the Board (except that individuals wishing to speak during public hearings pertaining to land use issues will have five minutes). The first person representing the organization will be allowed the five minutes. Subsequently, all other speakers on behalf of that organization have three minutes to address the Board. Once an individual has addressed the Board, he or she will not be permitted to return to the podium for follow-up comments, unless the issue involved is quasi judicial in nature. In that case, the applicant may return to the podium to conclude his or her position at the end of the public hearing.

Please note that all time approximate items are listed in bold.

Thursday, June 21, 2001 Marathon Government Center

2798 Overseas Highway, MM 47.5 (Gulf)

Marathon, Florida

Regular Meeting 9:00 A.M.

Land Authority 10:00 A.M.

Public Hearings 10:30 A.M.







1. Approval for a Grant of Conservation Easement for Lots 19, Block 3, Harbor Course South Section 4, as recorded in Plat Book 7 Page 8, between Fred Frey and Monroe County. The Real Estate Number is 00573670-001900


2. Approval for a Grant of Conservation Easement for Lot 51, Block 8, Harbor Course Section 4, between Gary Iskra and Monroe County. The Real Estate Number is 00573720-005100

More Visitor Feedback #58

Tuesday, July 19th 2005 - 08:59:32 AM

From: fired up
E-Mail: Private
Subject: Working Pacesetter Web-Site

More Visitor Feedback #57

Tuesday, July 19th 2005 - 07:56:21 AM

From: Ex-Employee that wans his money... but that will probably never happen.
E-Mail: Private
Subject: News Article.

I was bored and did a search on Gary Iskra.... I found this and thought it might be of some interest.....

More Visitor Feedback #56

Tuesday, July 19th 2005 - 05:55:16 AM

From: screwed2
E-Mail: Private
Subject: Wages, Sallaries, Commisions are not the only lost MONEY!

Has anyone lost their VACATION....

Has anyone lost their FLEX-ACCOUNT....

Has anyone lost their 401K ....

Has anyone had HEALTH INS. and/or FLEX HEALTH deducted from PAY, after coverage was canceled....

Does anyone have INS. claims UNPAID....

Does anyone have UNREEMBURSED EXPENSES....

Has anyone lost PERSONAL PROPERTY or PICTURES being locked-out...
If you are victim to any of the above, Then you have been SCREWED TOO!!!!

Has anyone followed thru with any GOVT. AGENCIES like ATTORNEY GENERAL, DEPT. LABOR, CONTRACTOR LICENSING, INS. COMMISION. You know the folks that can take your home and give it to a developer to build an industrial park to court companies like Pacesetter with TAX-BREAKS????

Any luck there?

More Visitor Feedback #55

Monday, July 18th 2005 - 12:42:45 PM

From: N.H.
E-Mail: Private
Subject: Interesting News Article

Hi again... Just wanted to send this link to you - it's from Channel 11 out of Pittsburgh, PA. You may have already seen it, but I find it very interesting...more dishonesty from the CFO, as well as some insight to Gary Iskra's former business success, or lack thereof... Just cut/paste into your browser.

I'm not certain what the status is of the offices on the east/west coasts, but from what I've heard indirectly from a current employee (in the West) many are basically working for free, with promises of pay soon to come. I can, however, officially guarantee that the offices in Lenexa and Wichita, KS are officially closed, as well as the Columbia and St. Louis, MO offices. (Johnson County Sheriff's office served papers on the Lenexa office within the last month, but knowing their rent hadn't been paid, they had already vacated the premises.) I have also been informed from former reps, that although these offices have been closed, they are still trying to run/set leads from different locations! I find this incredulous.

What amazes me further, is it sounds like they know of all the breaks the company could receive if moved to Pitt. I guess I'm hoping that between the BBB's negative rating, and any check of their financial reports, they will see that doing any further favors for this company already far beyond repair - would be a huge mistake.

Take care,

More Visitor Feedback #54

Monday, July 18th 2005 - 12:09:50 PM

From: Janice P. Piggott
E-Mail: Private
Subject: Pacesetter service stinks

We purchased a replacement patio cover from Pacesetter April 30. 2004. Installation was May 30, 2004. Today, July 18, 2005, I am still trying to get someone to come out a repair leaks. I have even written to the main office in Omaha, Nebraska. The times they did come to attempt repairs, they used some kind of tape that they pressed on and would pull the paper off. This is not what they used with the first patio cover. (The first patio cover was perfect with only one trip back here for leaks.) The replacement patio cover has taken 14 months and they still haven't gotten it right.

More Visitor Feedback #53

Monday, July 18th 2005 - 08:24:26 AM

From: Yoda
E-Mail: Private
Subject: Sacramento trip

Thought everyone would get a kick out of this story. I had an opportunity to be in the Sacramento area on Friday. So I decided to swing by the old office and say hi to a couple of people. Would'nt you know it, everybody was hunkered down inside behind closed & locked doors. They would'nt come to the door or answer phones. Just a bunch of pussies!
Oh yeah, Gary's fleet of trucks was parked out back, including his. I think he's too afraid to drive the black Mercedes for fear someone will tear it up.

More Visitor Feedback #52

Sunday, July 17th 2005 - 09:01:03 PM

From: Rick
E-Mail: Private
Subject: News Article

I attempted to go to the news articles (see below) but I kept getting the present days news. Is it possible to view the news for the days you provided

Media Coverage:
News10 Article: Layoffs and Bounced Paychecks Greet Employees of Telemarketing Firm (6/2/05)
News10 Video: Layoffs and Bounced Paychecks Greet Employees of Telemarketing Firm (6/2/05) Video: Authorities now investigating Pacesetter (5/30/05) Video: Complaints made over Pacesetter (5/24/05)

Admin's Response: The News10 links still seem to work, but the do appear to be gone. I will contact them and see if there's any way to get them.

More Visitor Feedback #51

Friday, July 15th 2005 - 03:31:45 PM

From: Allen Seebeck
E-Mail: Private
Subject: Pacesetter problems

Wow, I am glad someone else has had their share of this company as well. I had new siding installed on May 11, 2003. They did a good job, but now the siding facing the south has started to develope black spots on it. Its a gary color siding and these spots show very well on the siding. I have tryed to scrub them, wash them, and nothing seems to help. Now I tried to contact the company about it and get the run around with it. Cannot get a return phone call from the company. I paid 12,000.00 for this siding, and after two yearsd i want to rip it off. I just refinanced my home and paid the siding off through their finance company. Does anyone know what I should do or who to contact? Any help would be great. There is more to this story, but I just am so pissed about it.

More Visitor Feedback #50

Thursday, July 14th 2005 - 06:17:43 PM

From: CS
E-Mail: Private
Subject: Reply to Just helping out #48

Tierra sent a printout of all the jobs under my "account" as well as the accounting of the commissions paid. Many jobs were completed and paid 0 commission. Others conpleted and paid various levels of commission - all adding up to a very low total for commissions paid. By combining the two records they made it look like the very small sum I was paid was "too much", despite the thousands and thousands of completed sales I racked up for them. Yet a couple of months AFTER they fired me I received one final Small check with no explanation attached. So why would they send that out if I owed them money??? Doesn't make sense to me.

More Visitor Feedback #49

Thursday, July 14th 2005 - 02:17:29 PM

From: Evon Bell
E-Mail: Private
Subject: Almost the samestory

Well my husband and I are going to get our kitchen remolded. At first they said it would take 4-6 week after the notary guy came. we were going to reface the cabinets and new counter tops and a new floor. We gave them a $1000 deposit and they cashed it within two days which was fine. But than 6 week turned into 9 weeks thanI called to see what was going on and I was told that they can not do my counter tops due to bad complaints that they have gotton so they decided to cancel the counter tops alltogether. So my husband asked if we get a discount for that and they said yes but it was not much and a named Pete Maiorana Jr from Concord Ca came down to we do our Notary. Well when we went to do it at fisrt it was blank and he said he will fill it in later. So we got it notorized and we advised him to fill it in in our present. So he made an excuse but ended up doing so. So than he said it would take about 3 weeks before they started working on my kitchen. So now here we are 3 weeks has passed and we try calling but we get no answer and when my husband finally got him on the phone he said he would call back in a few minutes so the few minutes turned into him not calling back and my husband called him back two days later and he does not answer the phone so my husband calls him one last time to tell that he wants our $1000 back and he does not want to do business with them because they were unprofessional. So a manager calls him back in the next few minutes and says that someone will install our kitchen next week so now we will see. But I just wanted to voice my complaint too because they do suck and I do agree with you.

Best regards,
Evon Bell

More Visitor Feedback #48

Wednesday, July 13th 2005 - 08:20:23 PM

From: J.K's Spirit
E-Mail: Private
Subject: SHHHHH....

"Don't ask the owner about your pay check, he'll get mad."

More Visitor Feedback #47

Wednesday, July 13th 2005 - 08:18:37 PM

From: just a helpin' out
E-Mail: Private
Subject: #42 response


When one is termed for whatever reason last checks show nothing is owed and you sign off on that. Find your copy, I know they give evryone one

More Visitor Feedback #46

Wednesday, July 13th 2005 - 08:16:38 PM

From: just a helpin' out
E-Mail: Private
Subject: what you can do..

Here are a couple things you can do if you are getting those
"collection" calls.

Reps get hoppers, these hoppers track their business.
Just dig up your old hoppers and you'll see if your owed money, or if they owe you money. You can also call your customers and see if the products were ever installed.
Do some leg work.

More Visitor Feedback #45

Wednesday, July 13th 2005 - 02:25:01 PM

From: CS
E-Mail: Private
Subject: Response to reply # 44

Any suggestions as to what ex-employees are to do. Many, many of them after quitting or being fired are now, 1 year later, being sent threatening collection letters from some place called Tierra Portfolio claiming that they owe the company a big chunk of money for unearned commissions. I would suspect that Pacesetter has "adjusted" their paperwork to show that anyone that left owes THEM money, no matter how much they sold for the company. What can these people do to prevent their credit record being damaged by these bogus claims from a rather dishonest company? Any one know an ambitious lawyer that would like to make a name for himself and take on these turkeys with some sort of group legal action????

More Visitor Feedback #44

Wednesday, July 13th 2005 - 02:22:44 PM

From: cranberrry-ex-employee
E-Mail: Private
Subject: I AGREE

How can any of us just let it go. I agree HELL NO!!!!
This Corporation has ruined employees credit by distributing bad rubber-bouncen checks. And yes, if we don't take a stand now. what happens with all the new employees who get suckered into a so-called secure job, just to find theirselves a year later, in the same f--k--g shoes we all our wearing.

The article that was in the Pittsburgh Tribune Review, the reporter Sam Spatter that wrote that e-mailed me today stating that he forwarded my letter to the Director of Development Dennis Davin. I also am trying still to get a hold of Dan Oranato. And I won't stop trying until I reach him.

I am in this for the long hule. I don't care how long it takes, to get back whats mine, I'm sure many of you on this site will agree.

Pay-Backs a Bitch!!!!!!

More Visitor Feedback #43

Wednesday, July 13th 2005 - 12:58:47 PM

From: John
E-Mail: Private
Subject: Please make a complaint to the federal trade commision

My Wifes grandfather had over $7,000 stolen by pace setter and when we called the federal trade commission they gave us a case # but said nothing would be done by their office unless there were a lot of complaint's. So if they took money from you call the federal trade commission consumer response center at 1-877-382-4357.

More Visitor Feedback #42

Wednesday, July 13th 2005 - 09:37:36 AM

From: Hell No
E-Mail: Private
Subject: Response to #40

To #40-You say let it go. HELL NO! This company owes alot of people ex employees, creditors, vendors etc. money and you say let it go. That's exactly what they want us to do. I don't work for free. They are going to pay me one way or another. Niether did they back up their warranties on work done. I guess you weren't screwed enough! Right is right, wrong is wrong they did wrong to alot of people. Let go? Get your head out of your a..! and see the light.

More Visitor Feedback #41

Tuesday, July 12th 2005 - 10:01:03 PM

From: Jon Jacobs
E-Mail: Private
Subject: Past sales rep's being sent to collections........

I was with Pacesetter Corp for approximately nine months, working as a Sales Rep, in the Sacto, CA office.

After the company announced various changes, I decided it was time to seek another company.

It has been about one year since I last worked for them, and was "paid-out" for those jobs still in progress as I left.

Just recently I received a letter from a collection agency in the Midwest, stating I owe Pacesetter money. I contacted another rep who has worked once before, quit, and returned to work for them again. They state the company did the same thing, sending a threatening letter of litigation and credit bureau reporting. The agent states he did not respond to the first mailing after quitting, stated a derogatory mark was placed on a credit bureau, and then approx on year later, it dropped off.

I checked with several other reps, and one other has received such a letter as mine.

It is my belief that once a rep leaves the company, the company may attribute many unseen costs to a job sold by the rep, thus stating the rep was overpaid. This could give the company huge write-offs. It may be the company then sold these "accounts" to an unsuspecting collection agency, generating Pacesetter capital, and maybe leaving the collection company stuck with uncollectable debt. AND since the company is no longer operating here is Sacto, the reps can't get the accounting used in determining the validity of the claims made by the collection company.

Legal counsel is helping me decide how I will seek punitive damages through the courts for anything derogatory showing up on my credit report, and any bogus judgements attained by the collection agency.

More Visitor Feedback #40

Tuesday, July 12th 2005 - 06:54:13 PM

From: ex employee
E-Mail: Private
Subject: re: response #30


More Visitor Feedback #39

Tuesday, July 12th 2005 - 03:46:06 PM

E-Mail: Private


More Visitor Feedback #38

Tuesday, July 12th 2005 - 10:14:02 AM

From: Sandy
E-Mail: Private
Subject: Pacesetter does SUCK

My mother who suffered a stroke but was able to live by her self doing real well until one day when she got a call from Pacesetter Co. She is always too nice to people and has real trouble turning people down. Needless to say she put in new patio doors at the tune of 8000.00 dollars and a roof over her patio that looks like kids did it for another 2000.00. The salesman called my mother everyday. My mother is a christain and he (the salesman) used it for all it was worth. He said he was looking for a church for his family and he wanted to know more about her church. To make along story short he never went to her church and Pacesetter took out a 10000.00 lean against her morgage. She thought the papers she was signing were the ones to say the work was done when all she did was allow them to take a second morgage on her house. We are now trying to sell the house and Pacesetter will not settle. To bad my mom had to file bankrupsey so they get nothing. It is too bad Pacesetter has to get business by lying to older people.

More Visitor Feedback #37

Tuesday, July 12th 2005 - 07:13:24 AM

From: M & S; Cloquet MN
E-Mail: Private
Subject: Pacesetter Nightmares continue

We purschased windows and doors from Pacesetter Corp on 6-21-2000. We have had one windown that conitues to be a problem and we were charged $60 to have someone come to our house SEVERAL weeks later to "fix" it, NOT replace it, twice.

We now have the same window problem and out two storm doors are broken. The local and toll free telephone numbers do not work. Can we all say "class action law suit"?

More Visitor Feedback #36

Monday, July 11th 2005 - 04:36:16 PM

From: private
E-Mail: Private
Subject: Liz

Your best bet on trying to get that lien removed is to call Amerifirst, formerly Federal Diversified Services at 1-800-228-2179. Hope that helps.

More Visitor Feedback #35

Monday, July 11th 2005 - 11:06:35 AM

From: Liz
E-Mail: Private
Subject: Contact #

We have a lien and are trying to request a demand for payment and a release of lien from Pacesetter and are unable to contact them?? Do you know who I can contact or
a phone number for Pacesetter? Sorry for your experience.
Thank you for your help. We are desperate to clear this lien.

More Visitor Feedback #34

Sunday, July 10th 2005 - 03:31:59 PM

From: yeah that was me
E-Mail: Private
Subject: good stuff

glad u got to read that. who are you?

More Visitor Feedback #33

Sunday, July 10th 2005 - 07:29:13 AM

From: an ex'er
E-Mail: Private
Subject: The "best" is in the west !!!!

Wow, good to hear from Kevin, Rob, and I think Jen? Love the stories. I will share more myself as time goes on. Love it. Boy, I guess Drake really went into the tubes.
Keep em coming.
Does the "big boy" still work for Evans Glass in Seattle?

More Visitor Feedback #32

Sunday, July 10th 2005 - 02:22:20 AM

From: KWB
E-Mail: Private
Subject: To the Editor/To my Friends / To my Customers / My reflections

Wow! Its been about 2 years since I've written to this site. Last time, you didn't publish my thoughts. I Lost an $11,000.00 Sale to your warning of my nearly customers, who recinded my offer, after spending 3 quality hours with me, including sharing their dinner. they did need the windows, I wonder if they ever got them. I refrenced you as unamerican,I appologize, I was pissed.I believe this forum is more appropriate.

I worked hard for over 3 years at Pacesetter, I loved the company when I started. they Flew me to Sac. to train. I met a lot of very positive people (Jenkis,& father time) I came back to the home office a week later, and sold my first day out, Charles Jackson. I wasn't the greatest salesman, I never liked the one call close,however I did get good at it, and made a living,not taking advantage of a single customer, like steven said earlier, you can't please all the people all of the time,I had a couple of bumps with a couple of customer, I had great customer service, I always looked at it, as its my responsibiliy, what I'm I going to do about it. I traveled to power town every other week. I had a great support team with budah at the helm. I rose up through the ranks, JASM at first, then to ASM, they flew me to Omaha for "flight school" I made friends where ever I went (Pete & John H.)I learned to be a Sales Manager,and before I Left Omaha, they offered me 2 offices, I declined on both, and went back to my home office. I discovered that my sales manager was a crook, I took up the issue with my district manager, and
Gary Kluck,then I left the company with a $1500.00 black balace. I was paid 30 days later, and father time convinced me to come back. They fired the Salesmanager, and his ASM quit, they gave me the job. I Strugled, and strugled to get Man Power for 5 months, before they demoted me, and replaced me with an outside hire, I helped him to get manpower but he couldn't sell shit. that month I sold 24 deals, in 24 days, and netted over 100,000 got paid what was owed to me, and took 2 weeks of July off, and qualified for the Presidents trip Feb, 14,I think that saved my marrige. The sales manager was so pissed he quit, Gary gave me another chance. After that I got a write up in the pulse,Kicked Jenejohns ass for the #1 office in the nation, with alot of support from Neal, and hovered in the top 5. I ran the office until I retired from Pacesetter Jan,31,2005. I left the company again in the black, this time $3,700, The paid me $1800 thanks Joe, "I'm still a gentleman." $1900 is still caught up in an ice storm some where, in Omaha, or Pennsylvania?

I think the whole Pacesetter culture didn't change with the world, stuck in 1962. Gary & Gary, Mickey & Rick Should of Fired every one April first, then rehired the keys people Back. I don't think they inteded to Rip any one off, I think they were too compasionate to do the right thing. Payroll to the middle,and upper management is what tanked the company,Paying the dead beat, do nothing, blow hards, interupted the cash flow. How many Bo Bo's does it take to change a light bulb?

I never seen a poor product at Pacesetter, our installaion dept. was top notch. I first sold windows to my mom, I put all pacesetter windows on my house, Bobby has a house full of windows, there were some service issues,that is common with all the home improvement companies I've looked at. Again as a salesman, its my responsibility, what I'm I going to do about it.

I empathize with these hard ship stories on this web site.
I suffered for over three years, I worked 6 days aweek for at least 12 hours, then 92hours a week as a sales manager, what did I learn? A lot,In May, I purchased the company that I went to work for In Feb. I started out with no employee's, Now I have 3 employees. As for Leads, there all inbound calls, from homeshows, referals, and canvassing.Very Few are one call closed. I don't think it was luck at all, its skill. there is alot of Talant on this web site now. Pull your boot straps up, and use some of it to feed your family. If you want to drop me a line, please do.

More Visitor Feedback #31

Saturday, July 9th 2005 - 07:29:08 PM

From: youll know which employee this is
E-Mail: Private
Subject: found something more than a gold chain

lets see, i started with bill goldman and tony dentice the only two respectable upper management people that are gone with the shragers, i made about 13000 in one month as a telemarketer suddenly the comp plan changed so i moved up to run grand rapids "A" office i was on a rol and moved to tacoma and ended up being a Lead center mgr Wow what a title after closing that call center the DWARF relocated me to sacramento to be the training manager which was funny because he didnt have the balls to tell the previous training mgr she was demoted so for 3 weeks of uncoordinated management and paying me 900 a week to do absolutely nothing they finnally made me the training manager. well after some little man who was shorter than me started to get jeaulous over some girl he wanted to cheat on his wife with. he then badmouthed me to other managers and the funny thing is i still had more respect from the employees and i married that girl after she was persuaded to go on some journey "mid-life crisis" with the little peepee man. during there journey i fought with a chinese "at least i think thats what he was" he was my racist so called supervisor, in fact he was such a good supervisor for the last 4 weeks i was there i slept in sales managers off and got paid for 50 hrs. then some previous sales manager that was apparantly smoking crystal meth and playing with himself with icy hot said that i was selling leads to him, he actually told mr Kluck this. i think he is single now and works for american home pro. anyways they terminated me for misconduct and because there was no description or warning i now get 496 a week in unemployment and thank you robert d for the gold chain and my beautiful wife. to all you left good luck and larry k does have a stupid smile is that why reese bros fired him or was it because he did not know sh_t about telemarketing after all look what the pivot town master did to pacesetter. go on take the money and run I DID and mine cashed because i did it at S_NNy's market godd bless ya sonny!!!!!

More Visitor Feedback #30

Saturday, July 9th 2005 - 07:04:35 PM

From: previous sacramento employee
E-Mail: Private
Subject: me too

I started at pacesetter in 1999, and walked out in

February, 2005. In my experience, the management staff was

extremely less than professional. My immediate supervisor

(ML) was arrogant, rude, condensending, and a know-it-all

whiney baby. I had absolutley no respect for him, and he

knew he made my everyday life a living hell. I

always had a knot in my stomache when I would pull into

the parking lot. I had his boss on my side though, because

he had the hots for me, so I never really had to worry

about Mr. ML. The VP of marketing, a glorified

telemarketer, was a snake and a con-artist with little

man syndrome. I learned the hard way, hey, everyone

makes mistakes! In my experience, the only way to make

it with that company was if you were good looking, but

as a female you wouldn't make it that far. There were

only 3 female telemarketing managers the entire time I was there, one at a time of course, so as not to have any discrimination suits. I was one of them for a while. The other 2, like me, were tough and we knew how to take all the sexual comments and deal with the perverts that we worked for. I do have to say ML never made any advances at me, he was too busy putting me down and complaining that I never went to him with any problems, he hated it that I always went over his head. I had to because his people skills were non existant. He spent most of his time complaining with the other employees about how the upper management was unfair to the telemarketing department, and how they only cared about salesmen and sales managers.(theres a group of jokes for ya!) As far as the Sales department, a cluster of womanizing, cocky jerks, who thought they could f*&# every one out of there money, and I guess they did for a while. How's that working out now? Most of them hung out in bars, doing drugs and cheating on their wives after work, mainly after they had a "big deal", that was their sales managers way of congradulating them. I know alot about them, some of them made a "special trip" just to see me, one or two from out of town. I am not proud of my actions but at least i am honest. I have moved on with my life and leaving that g-d forsaken hell hole was the best thing I have ever done. Glad to see that everything didn't work out for them. I was lucky enough to be able to cash my final paycheck in February. Sorry to those who are still waiting on theirs, DIDN'T YOU SEE IT COMING???? I am even more sorry to hear that 4 lone rangers still exist in the bone pile of what used to be the sacramento PROFIT center. Get the heck outa there you guys. I was not willing to go down with the ship. USS Pacesetter does not care about their employees or their customers. All about the Money, wait a sec... what money?? ask the fantastic foursome where that is. Its too bad I waisted all that time there. Thanx for nothin'. and to the people still employed, Grab your life jackets!

More Visitor Feedback #29

Friday, July 8th 2005 - 11:29:00 PM

From: Richard Pochop
E-Mail: Private
Subject: Horrible Service

I had new windows and slider doors installed about five months ago. The main locks already do not work and they never installed my final kitchen window. The installation was crap, with myself and wife left to clean up. I am just looking to find other people in the Sacramento area with similar situations. This company came highy recommended to me and its my fault for going with them. I just want to make the company accountable now.

More Visitor Feedback #28

Friday, July 8th 2005 - 09:08:56 AM

From: screwed 2
E-Mail: Private
Subject: Hope this helps

Don�t know how many #�s still work, worth a try.

PAY-ROLL FAX 402-597-4355





DAVE KOZAC PITTS SERV. EXT. 241 724-741-2100



MICKY MADDEN CELL 724-910-1010


More Visitor Feedback #27

Friday, July 8th 2005 - 08:45:59 AM

From: B Hickerson
E-Mail: Private
Subject: are pacesetter parts available

I've got pacesetter windows and doors and need parts for a patio door.. the bottom rollers. Does anyone know if parts are available from third parties or from pacesetter?

More Visitor Feedback #26

Thursday, July 7th 2005 - 11:46:09 PM

From: Cal Kid
E-Mail: Private
Subject: Dan Onorato

I read the article in the Pa paper with much disgust, it seems like they have even scamed a whole city onto doing buisness with them.Today I spent a couple of hours trying to get thru to Alleghny county official Dan Onorato who I guess is who was convinced into luring "the great pacesetter corp"(they dont deserve capital letters)into the city of Pittsburgh by offering them tax advantages and some city grant money if they relocated there.I also e-mailed the reporter who put out that story that makes "them" seem like a great Co. (It was, when Phil and Harley ran it)I encourage all to do the same ........try to contact Dan the e-mail I got was
Hope that we all get our $ soon
Checks in the mail

More Visitor Feedback #25

Thursday, July 7th 2005 - 05:14:49 PM

From: justanother ex-employee
E-Mail: Private
Subject: Pacesetter and Pittsburgh

TO EX-EMPLOYEE-CRANBERRY: I have not heard of anyone filng a class action suit. If they did I would hope they would post it here and let all of us be included. I would definetely be interested in joining in! However, I did file the necessary paperwork, i.e. wage complaint form, with the Dept. of Labor to try and recoop my money. I am now awaiting a response from them. I read with great interest the article about Pacesetter opening a manuf. plant in Pittsburg in yesterdays paper. I sent a very strong letter to the person that wrote that article and told him to look at this web site and then decide if this is the type of company they want opening in Pitt. I urge all of you to do the same thing. His email address is: reference article #350454. They cannot get away with treating people like this and in my case they will not. If the Labor Dept can not help me then I will file a personal suit against them. One way or another I will get what is owed to me! I feel sorry for the good people of Pittsburgh expecting to go to work for a good company and only going to be screwed like the rest of us. Please keep us informed about any class action suit developments. Thanks.

More Visitor Feedback #24

Thursday, July 7th 2005 - 10:54:51 AM

From: ex-employee Cranberry
E-Mail: Private
Subject: I need information







More Visitor Feedback #23

Thursday, July 7th 2005 - 08:43:51 AM

E-Mail: Private
Subject: Pacesetter may add local manufacturing facility

>Pacesetter Corp., which recently moved its national headquarters from Omaha, Neb., to downtown Pittsburgh, may also open a manufacturing facility in Allegheny County.
>To read the entire article, visit:
>1. Click here:
>2. Or visit and type in NewsCode: 350454
>For the most comprehensive coverage of local news and sports in western
>Pennsylvania, visit

More Visitor Feedback #22

Wednesday, July 6th 2005 - 07:42:11 PM

From: CS
E-Mail: Private
Subject: What's the story?

Any way people that don't live in the Pittsburg area can access the news story that was on Channel 11? Most curious as to what was revealed and if there will be any action,legal or otherwise against Pacesetter. Also, any tips as to how to get this kind of coverage nationwide would go along way to helping stop these unethical people from hurting any more customers or employees. They need to be put in their place!!

More Visitor Feedback #21

Wednesday, July 6th 2005 - 05:32:00 PM

From: Terrel Woolbright
E-Mail: Private
Subject: Where has Pacesetter gone....

I do not believe they have gone anywhere. We are in Oregon. The contract we signed with them was under the name Pacesetter Corporation (CCB #55159). We went to the CCB board in Oregon and found out the CCB number is inactive and the Pacesetter Corporation name was no longer a "good name". The new number is CCB #160979 and the company name is "The Pacesetter Corporation of America". The CCB office lists their address as follows: 4343 S 96th ST Omaha, NE 68127, 402-331-9400. I know some of this is the same, but it was the current information the CCB here in Oregon had. It did give four corporate officers names: Terry Dean Brownfield, Stanley Marc Edelstein and Dana Martin Hamik. The document I have shows The Pacesetter Corporation of America first licensed on 08/26/2004 and the license expires on 08/26/2006. It also seems to me if Pacesetter changed their company name and licensing,new contracts made after that date should reflect these changes to be valid...?

More Visitor Feedback #20

Wednesday, July 6th 2005 - 04:43:01 PM

From: ex-employee Cranberry
E-Mail: Private
Subject: Pacesetter Made the News

Well, Channel 11 here in Pittsburgh had Pacesetter on the news, that's right. Target Investigation at 5:00pm. According to the news reporter Gary Iskra called the station earlier and wanted to let them know if they had any questions they would be more than happy to answer them, Tough Luck Gary, your about 3 months to late. Also Dennis Davin is doing his investigation on Pacesetter and will give no grant monies after I have a talk with him. So you see Gary-Mickey-Mark and I'll throw Larry in there as well.
You may as well pack your bags and get on outta here. Cause you ain't doin business no more in our city....

More Visitor Feedback #19

Tuesday, July 5th 2005 - 10:54:37 PM

From: LOST MY A$$
E-Mail: Private


More Visitor Feedback #18

Tuesday, July 5th 2005 - 08:51:08 PM

From: cranberry ex-employee
E-Mail: Private
Subject: Missing Money

Channel 11 news Wednesday at 5:00pm will be airing a segment On Pacesetter MISSING MONEY. Watch it!!!!!!

Pittsburgh News Channel

More Visitor Feedback #17

Tuesday, July 5th 2005 - 08:17:14 PM

From: M Mayes
E-Mail: Private
Subject: Where's Pacesetter?

I haven't been able to find any news on pacesetter the past couple of weeks, their websites are gone, the local office here in Milwaukee just has a recording that if you have any service issues, the service department is "reorganizing" and to call back in 30 days. Are they out of business, bankrupt, "reorganizing"? Does anyone have any current news on them?

More Visitor Feedback #16

Tuesday, July 5th 2005 - 08:03:14 PM

From: Mark
E-Mail: Private
Subject: Tierra Services

Like a lot of other people that seem to be contacting this website in regards to pacesetter's shady dealings with both its customers as well as its employees, I was also in the mix as an employee. I have investigated this whole situation because like everyone else I also do not want this on my credit. Here is what I have found out. First off for everyone that knows Troy from Tierra services, he cannot take you to court for this "debt". Tierra Services does not own this debt; they are nearly assigned this debt through pacesetter. This means that Pacesetter still acts as the "creditor" in attempting to have any debts paid back. Tierra Services cannot be the company that takes you to small claims court, it must be Pacesetter because they are still the "creditors" in these debt claims. My advice to everyone that has the same problem as I do. If Troy from Tierra Services puts this on your credit report, locate a credit bureau and immediately dispute this claim. Pacesetter does not have the finances to take all their ex-employees who "owe" the company money to take them to small claims court. IF on the small chance that you would be called to court, contact your Attorney General in attempts to receive a small claims hearing in your state you reside in. The attorney general is there to protect you against people like this in different states. Pacesetter will have to go through more hassles to get you into court than they are willing to pay for. This is a scare tactic that is trying to get any money they can from their ex employees to pay for all the debt that the company owes. Good advice would be to NOT PAY THIS BILL. Everyone that has been talking about this realizes what kinda company you are dealing with, but they have no money to take us all to small claims court. This is the best advice I can offer anyone in relations to Tierra Services in regards to your "unearned commissions".

More Visitor Feedback #15

Tuesday, July 5th 2005 - 07:52:28 PM

From: Mark
E-Mail: Private
Subject: Repair

Jeff -
I am sorry, but you are not going to get any help from pacesetter to fix your windows. What is wrong with your windows? I could possibly help.

More Visitor Feedback #14

Tuesday, July 5th 2005 - 10:37:39 AM

From: Jeffrey Enos
E-Mail: Private
Subject: Pacesetter

I have tried to contact Pacesetter for about three weeks and can't seem to get anyone to contact me or talk to a person about repairs on my pacesetter windows. I have tried to contact the national office(no answer) and the Sacramento office(no answer). How can I have someone contact me to fix my windows? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Best Regards,

Jeffrey Enos

More Visitor Feedback #13

Tuesday, July 5th 2005 - 09:48:24 AM

From: dj
E-Mail: Private
Subject: Harressed by Tierra Portfolio

I received another call from "Troy" from Tierra Portfolio. Long sory short - after working for Pacesetter, we now OWE them money!! How sjhould I deal with this? I don't want a negative credit report, but I don't feel we owe them money either. We put in long hours, drove a TON of miles, were sent to seedy parts of the city. I need some HELP!!
Thank you

More Visitor Feedback #12

Monday, July 4th 2005 - 01:29:42 PM

From: Wayne Miller (Eaton Rapids, Michigan)
E-Mail: Private
Subject: Ripped OFF

Feb. of this year we purchased an awning from Pacesetter Corp. We were taken for $7,500 dollars. Product not avaiable. WE ALL MUST PULL TOGETHER AND FIGHT. GET SOME OF YOUR MONEY BACK. 517-531-4569

More Visitor Feedback #11

Monday, July 4th 2005 - 01:34:11 AM

From: Kimberly
E-Mail: Private
Subject: Got snacks?

My Pacesetter experience is not from being a former employee or a consumer that got screwed, BUT, a vendor that provided one Pacesetter Corp. with "Snacks, Crackers, & Pop!" My route, (recently purchased) I bought BECAUSE of Pacesetter Corp. When I recently went to fill my snack and soda machines... I COULDN'T OPEN THEM! "They" had tampered with the locks and had been shaking my (still paying on) $3500 snack machine in an attempt to get something to eat for free, and/or take money! Trust me...THERE IS NO MONEY IN THERE! Desperate people take desperate measures. I Understand. Please be good to your vendor. She, like you, is desperate.


More Visitor Feedback #10

Saturday, July 2nd 2005 - 08:50:56 PM

From: Vikki Dullinger
E-Mail: Private
Subject: Pacesetter window problems

My problems are rather basic compared to everyone else's but I really want to voice them non-the-less. Basically, I bought extremely overpriced,poorly designed windows. My installation went well, the gentleman who installed them was polite, cleaned up when done, and appeared at the appointed time. The windows seem to insulate well in winter and in summer.
The problem is the window design. Does anyone else realize that these windows must be closed and locked at night? The screens are removed from the outside. After removing the screens, the windows can then be removed. Also, the drain holes are large enough to permit mosquitos and other small insects to enter if you have your windows open. West Nile is a concern here.... They are also large enough to let in the Asian beetles that are so prevelant in my part of the country. They will collect unter the bottom rails. The screens are so thick that your rooms are dark.

Even at 1/3 the price (which would still be high) these windows should not be purchased for health and safety reasons.

More Visitor Feedback #9

Saturday, July 2nd 2005 - 04:19:56 AM

From: ex mgr
E-Mail: Private

Does anybody know if Jeff Thompson or Robert Douthit are still in the mix????

More Visitor Feedback #8

Saturday, July 2nd 2005 - 01:22:22 AM

From: X-MGRS
E-Mail: Private
Subject: Loafs

You idiots should pay back your balances. Half the time we gave you a chance and you were weak boys, teamed you with are best reps and you could not walk on your own. "I owe money ?"Of course you do you did not earn it..

PS who would still work there?
ps 2 did the dakota kid out recruit Mick

More Visitor Feedback #7

Friday, July 1st 2005 - 08:23:25 AM

From: same old song and dance
E-Mail: Private
Subject: why are we surprised

People when you work for a co. that sells overpriced items to cust. charges high rates on interest, and demands you run leads on senoirs who only have ssi why are we surprised that they ripped off thier employees too. Its all about money. WE worked for our pay did our job and they bounced our checks, kept down payments and are still open so they can start fresh. This is america and there are laws against people like this but do they care. NO!!!! Like I said its all about money. I suggest that we all call them everyday untill thay pay or have to hide. I want revenge because they are evil, greedy,liars, who think that everybody can be fooled by bullshit. Eye for an eye.

More Visitor Feedback #6

Friday, July 1st 2005 - 06:40:52 AM

From: Jason
E-Mail: Private
Subject: Now I owe them money?!

I worked for the Pacesetter Corp. for approx. 2.5 months as a salesman and closed a few deals. When I left them, I did so without owing any money to them. Now I just got a letter in the mail from a collection agency telling me I have 10 days to pay them a $1,700 debt. Huh?! Two other friends of mine also recently received letters from the same agency stating that they owed Pacesetter a large sum of money. Should I pay it? Or get a lawyer and fight it? I spoke with the former assistant office manager and he said to let it go until I get court papers. What a crock!

More Visitor Feedback #5

Thursday, June 30th 2005 - 07:31:25 PM

From: Mark
E-Mail: Private
Subject: Tierra Services

I also am an ex pacesetter employee that time in and time out ripped off customers of cheap home improvement products. I have been contacted by Tierra Services for a debt for unearned allowances of 1400 dollars. Now after researching this company, I have found out that this company very much so does exist. I had hung 220,000 dollars in home improvements for the 5 months that I had been there. My "earned" commissions had accounted for 4600 dollars, that is how much they made off of me, and how much I received in return. My question is that if this company is declaring bankruptcy like I have heard, or even just because they are changing names to this Altima shit, does our debt still exist? Why are all these letters popping up all of the sudden as well? I had an idea that there is a possibility of a class action law suit regarding this company? Does anyone know the law well enough to respond if this is possible? I do plan on seeking legal advice. Any responses would be greatly appreciated.

More Visitor Feedback #4

Thursday, June 30th 2005 - 06:19:51 PM

From: Terrel Woolbright
E-Mail: Private
Subject: Pacesetter took $1K of ours and ran!

We have been took by Pacesetters. They were going to reface our kitchen cabinets. Came to our house and did the quote, which did not seem out of line. I gave them a check to get started on the work. I have done this in the past with contractors and have never been burned before. Well it is well past the time they were to come and do the work. My wife called and they said it would be another 4 weeks. Two weeks later, she calls to confirm this. No one is answering the phones. Finally she got ahold of someone in Nebraska. She then was told it would be another 8 weeks. She told this person that is not acceptable. He just "chuckled" and said, well OK. Then hung up. I went to the Pacesetter office in Portland, Oregon to talk with someone directly. The sign is on the building...but the building is empty. The phones just ring and ring...they didn't even turn off the phones. Nebraska office phone lines won't accept phone messages. The recording says the voice message system is full. We called the CCB board with the State of Oregon. We had them check the CCB number on our contract. IT IS PHONEY! We are starting the process of contacting a lawyer and filing with the Fraud division for the State of Oregon. Kind of destroys your faith in contractors. If anyone has had a similar experience with this group of cons and won, please contact us.



More Visitor Feedback #3

Thursday, June 30th 2005 - 08:51:51 AM

From: Former Employee's Mom
E-Mail: Private
Subject: What a bunch of Crooks!

This may be the only outlet I have after watching this dishonest company destroy my son. He worked for them for several months right out of college as he was desperate for money. In those months he drove all over 5 states trying to sell their overpriced products. The money he received did not even begin to cover his gas expense, let alone wear and tear on the vehicle and actual profit to pay any of his expenses. He racked up sales of over $200,000, yet his commission for all that was only $6000 and represents the total that he received from them. The commission analysis statement shows many of the jobs were cancelled by the customer or "bank rejects." There were some, coincidentally the larger sales, wher NO commission was paid to him at all, because of "some error" in paperwork he supposedly made, or some other lame excuse.
He interviewed for a different job in his field, and was fired the very next day when a fellow employee told the manager that he had interviewed. A couple of months later, he received a very small check from the company for residual commission.
Imagine our surprise when nearly a year later, he has received a very heavy handed and intimidating letter from some debt collector trying to get him to repay about 1/3 of all the very low money they did give him. They claim that his commission account was such that he hadn't earned in commission even the $6000 he did get out of them!!! They said that this is what he agreed to in his "employment agreement." A couple of questions come to mind. Why did they send out a final check 2 months after being fired if he owed them money? Why wait so long to now pursue this? Why were there no previous statements FROM THEM indidcating that he owed them anything? Only a nasty letter from a debt collector (check to be made out to Pacesetter) giving him 10 days to fork it over or "risk a bad report being added to his personal credit report." Does their bankruptcy issues have something to do with this witch hunt?
These people are unbelievable. Not only do they prey on those who can't afford this, but they seem to apply the same tactics to their employees as well, especially the entry level sales people. My son also had a friend that signed on and did it with him..........he too was fired and received the same threating letter and action. There is a special place in Hell for people who can treat others so poorly and obviously without ethic or conscience.

More Visitor Feedback #2

Wednesday, June 29th 2005 - 08:58:42 PM

From: fyi
E-Mail: Private
Subject: name change

The correct spelling for the new company may be ultima.
Either way ultima or altima it's still pacesetter!!

More Visitor Feedback #1

Wednesday, June 29th 2005 - 01:52:58 PM

From: Ken Innes
E-Mail: Private
Subject: The Next, Next Book

Dang, people! The second book of unfiltered visitor feedback nearly got filled up as well, and this time in under two months. Fear not though, for here is yet another book.

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